Nicole Clegg: 0:00

Reality is that Trump in his first term was incredibly successful in putting a lot of extremists on the courts to the point where one in five federal judges is a Trump appointee.

Liz Canada: 0:13

Woof. Yeah. That percentage is too high. That is way too

Nicole Clegg: 0:18

Very. And, you know, I mean, especially because you have people who have been put on for lifetime appointments that are not in any way competent or skilled as judges.

Liz Canada: 0:28

You want to name some names, Nicole? Let's hear them. Let's hear those judge names.

Nicole Clegg: 0:31

Amarillo, Texas seems to have one.

Liz Canada: 0:45

You are listening to New Hampshire Has Issues, and I am your host from the future, Liz Canada. I recorded this episode with Nicole back in June, because when the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England comes to your office, you definitely try to record with her right away. We talk about things from the June context, and that means that a lot has changed since then. The one that I really want to flag for you right now is that the federal budget reconciliation, boring words, but we'll talk about it in the episode. We talked about that in a way that was like, it could happen. Well, it has happened. And so when you hear her talk about what the impact of that would be, we are in that now, friends. So thank you for listening. I am going to put in the show notes a link that if you live in Northern New England, Maine, New Hampshire, or Vermont, you can donate directly to Planned Parenthood of Northern New England towards the health care that the health centers deliver day to day. High quality, excellent health care that we'll talk about as well. If you would like to support the show, that link is there as well. Thank you for those who already do. And new episodes every Tuesday. We've got some great episodes coming up. So like, subscribe, share these episodes with your friends, leave a rating would be great. And again, thank you for listening. I will pass it back over to the June version of me.

Liz Canada: 2:04

Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that dares to ask, does New Hampshire have more issues than Maine and Vermont? What do you think, Nicole?

Nicole Clegg: 2:13

Yeah, I'm going to do a Star Wars reference.

Liz Canada: 2:15

Oh, go for it. Let's hear it. Yes.

Nicole Clegg: 2:16

And say, can New Hampshire stay on target?

Liz Canada: 2:20

I remember what happened to that guy that says stay on target.

Nicole Clegg: 2:22

He lives. He does.

Liz Canada: 2:24

Stay on target guy?

Nicole Clegg: 2:25

Yeah, yeah, he does.

Liz Canada: 2:27

Oh, he does.

Nicole Clegg: 2:29

Yeah. Stay on target.

Liz Canada: 2:30

Yes. Right. So are you the stay on target guy? And I'm the one who gets how does this?

Nicole Clegg: 2:36

Well, no, I think that no, because they don't all die. But stay on target is about like it's the long view. You can't get distracted. You got to stay on target.

Liz Canada: 2:46

Yeah. It's so hard, though, Nicole. It's so hard.

Nicole Clegg: 2:50

I know, but you can do it.

Liz Canada: 2:51

We have had some wins in New Hampshire this year. It's been...

Nicole Clegg: 2:54

I mean, like, I keep joking because I wish I had recorded both of you the day after the election so I could play it back to you today.

Liz Canada: 3:01

Footage not found, thankfully. So I am your host, Liz Canada, and joining me today to talk about... abortion rights, reproductive rights, and the landscape across Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont is the CEO of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England. And in other words, my biggest of big bosses, Nicole Clegg. So big. So big. So big. You're the ultimate, you're the big boss. Nicole, thank you for being here.

Nicole Clegg: 3:33

Thank you for having me.

Liz Canada: 3:33

Thanks for chatting with me. I had heard you were coming to Concord, New Hampshire. I was like, can I... grab her for a few minutes to talk about all the things in our state. So thank you for taking the time. I know you are so busy.

Nicole Clegg: 3:48

I love making time for you. Anytime.

Liz Canada: 3:51

CEO. I get to talk to the CEO today. It is incredible. I don't know how familiar you are with the podcast that is new to the scene. New Hampshire has issues that I have created, but every episode I bring on a guest to talk about an issue in New Hampshire. But you are a celebrity.

Nicole Clegg: 4:09

Oh.

Liz Canada: 4:10

Yes. Because you are a CEO of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England, three states, which I think also have issues overall.

Nicole Clegg: 4:20

Yeah.

Liz Canada: 4:20

So I'm hoping we can just talk today about... I don't know, the disaster that is our federal government and what might be happening in our three states. Are you okay with that?

Nicole Clegg: 4:30

I'm happy to.

Liz Canada: 4:31

Would you classify it as a disaster or are there other words you might use? As a CEO, are there other things you might say? I say disaster because...

Nicole Clegg: 4:42

Yeah, okay. I mean, like, I think that we differ a little bit because some of us might be half empty people and some of us are half full. You know, so I think it's a mixed bag. I mean, like, I would say despite all of the hard things that are coming to us, we continue to provide exceptional care to people who walk through our doors every day. And that's the win.

Liz Canada: 5:04

So... There are health centers in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont. I know this because I work here. So I do know some things. Thank you. Spoiler alert, listeners. But our three states are very different in our laws. And, you know, this whole podcast is about New Hampshire. But Maine and Vermont are different from one another as well. I think people assume about New England in general that everything is super duper great. What are some of the... I guess, issues, but differences across the three states when you think of your role as the CEO of this organization. How do you deal with the differences? What are the differences that are out there? Talk to me about those things.

Nicole Clegg: 5:48

Happily. Well, first, I like to describe the northern New England as we have... Maine and Vermont are the two sides of the toothpaste tube and New Hampshire is the middle. And we're just going to squeeze all that toothpaste out of it.

Liz Canada: 6:02

I definitely feel squeezed. So that's very accurate. Great. Yes. Yes, definitely.

Nicole Clegg: 6:09

I mean, it's interesting, right, like that we have sort of very homogenous states, you know, and in some ways the issues that we are facing in all three are really similar. You know, how do you deliver health care in a really rural part of the country? How do you deal with an aging housing stock? You know, how do we make sure that there is employment opportunity for young people and attract them to our states? Like, it is interesting that, like, the three states are grappling with kind of the same problems. And, you know, I would say Maine is a bit of a mix. And then New Hampshire's challenged in that space where the views are more complicated when it comes to what can government do and how can government answer in this moment. So there's that. And then on top of that, you have like across the board, a deep commitment to individual rights and decision making. Like, I don't think that you would hear kind of a different perspective from a Mainer or Granite Stater or a Vermonter. Like they all care a lot about like, hey, I don't need you in my business. I don't want you making decisions about like when I'm going to start a family or who I'm going to, you know, be in love with. Like that's my place. That's in my home. I mean, so like those are the great things. And those are the things that make it easy to, you know, I don't have to change how I talk about the issues depending on the state that I'm in because we all sort of hold these values in the same way.

Liz Canada: 7:49

Privacy. I love my house. I love my community. I love my state. There's a lot of state pride in all three of those states. What about around abortion laws? The first episode of this podcast, I had Kayla on and we talked about abortion rights.

Nicole Clegg: 8:05

And I listened to it.

Liz Canada: 8:05

Oh, thank you. Love a listener. But we talked about how we-

Nicole Clegg: 8:08

Is it like long-time caller first, or long-time listener, first-time caller?

Liz Canada: 8:12

Yes. Long-time CEO, first-time guest, medium listener. We'll workshop that. But Kayla was on and we talked about how folks might be surprised to find out we don't have the right to abortion in New Hampshire and that that's something that we are, of course, advocating for and so forth. But what is it like in Maine and Vermont comparatively?

Nicole Clegg: 8:32

Well, let's start with Vermont, which, you know, yeah, passed a constitutional amendment and codified reproductive liberty in their state constitution. Yeah. So, you know, they really have done some amazing work. I mean, had to pass by two thirds of the voters. And it did.

Liz Canada: 8:47

And it did.

Nicole Clegg: 8:48

And it passed in every single precinct. Every single one. Yeah. And that's incredible and remarkable.

Liz Canada: 8:55

And that was after Roe v. Wade was overturned or before?

Nicole Clegg: 8:58

Well, so the process for the constitutional amendment in Vermont takes about four years.

Liz Canada: 9:06

Oh, my God. Y eah.

Nicole Clegg: 9:06

So the process had actually started, you know, when Brett Kavanaugh was like not on the scene and there wasn't this sort of like immediate threat or worry about losing protections of Roe. It was sort of like, we're Vermont. We want to take, you know, like we're going to keep And lo and behold, it was incredibly necessary.

Liz Canada: 9:35

There's something about the language had to be the same throughout the entire process. That's a lot of work to get over the finish line. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's really incredible.

Nicole Clegg: 9:45

This speaks to we always have to have the long view. Like, I know that there's a desire to kind of like look at this election by election. But when you're talking about a fight for autonomy or basic human rights, you don't get to think about it in those short terms. You really do have to kind of like have a long vision. And so I credit the folks in Vermont for doing that. And I mean, it proved really valuable.

Nicole Clegg: 10:10

In Maine, we have something called the Reproductive Privacy Act, which was codified into law in the 90s. And so that essentially put into law the tenets of the Roe versus Wade decision, which is that everybody has the right to end a pregnancy. At the time, it had sort of a caveat around viability. That has since been addressed in the law to allow for, you know, abortions later in pregnancy, which are necessary. And certainly, I think since we've lost Roe, people are understanding more and more why those are so necessary.

Liz Canada: 10:43

Absolutely.

Nicole Clegg: 10:44

I mean, what's interesting, too, the driver in the 90s for the state legislature in Maine to pass it was there was the same concern that the Supreme Court was going to overturn Roe, that they didn't know kind of how Sandra Day O'Connor and, you know, like how these people were going to land. And they felt like they needed to have these protections in place. Lo and behold, It didn't happen then. But, you know, several decades later, here we are in a situation where it's really valuable to have that codified into state law. So those are important pieces. There's another, you know, distinction. I mean, like there's a bunch of other distinctions in the laws, especially when you compare them to New Hampshire. You know, I think that the thing that I sort of always lean into and want people to understand is that people who are covered by Medicaid in Vermont and Maine have abortion coverage, but they don't have that in New Hampshire.

Liz Canada: 11:35

Right.

Nicole Clegg: 11:56

In addition to having the law in New Hampshire so that you could point to some protections, that doesn't get us fully there, right? We still need to be taking care of everybody to make sure that the right isn't just a right on the law books, but it's actually like people can access it.

Liz Canada: 12:11

Right. It's more than just saying we sort of give you permission, you're allowed to do this, but actually making it accessible for everybody.

Nicole Clegg: 12:19

Right.

Liz Canada: 12:19

Maine and Vermont, they're doing pretty well overall. But there's also differences. When my friends from Colorado, I lived in Colorado for 10 years, they know of New Hampshire as being like in New England, totally fine, everything must be going well. And even people in state see maybe our federal delegation, which is extremely supportive of abortion rights.

Nicole Clegg: 12:41

Better than Maine.

Liz Canada: 12:42

Better than Maine. Right. So like, how is it to work across these states where you have, you know, in New Hampshire, our state lawmakers are, I will let you just fill in the blank however you would like in terms of where we are. But our federal delegation is really supportive and actively supportive, proactively getting out there and sponsoring positive legislation for reproductive rights. What is it like to work across states where that's not necessarily the case, especially in this Trump administration? What should we be looking toward in our federal delegations in all three states?

Nicole Clegg: 13:15

Well, I mean, this is where the battle line has been drawn, right? I don't want to diminish the fights that you have in Concord, the statehouse, are plenty and they're I mean, they're already... taking action. We saw this through a federal family planning program called Title X, which we had our funds withheld for New Hampshire. And those are dollars that help cover the cost of free care, because a lot of people don't know that we provide care to anybody who walks through the door, regardless of their ability to pay.

Liz Canada: 14:02

No matter what.

Nicole Clegg: 14:04

Correct.

Liz Canada: 14:04

Somebody shows up at Planned Parenthood, they're going to get the health care that they need, even if they cannot pay.

Nicole Clegg: 14:09

Exactly. And we rely on these funds to help us do that. They don't cover the entire cost, let's be clear, but it's an important contributor. So we've had those funds withheld under really bogus claims. We have lived up to every expectation of our grants. We actually got inspected right before the election and had glowing reviews. The department was like, this is incredible what you're doing. So they've done that. We now have a budget reconciliation bill, which is this sort of special vehicle that Congress has where they can pass something just with a simple majority. In the Senate, this is really the only time that you can pass something with a simple majority. Every other thing requires 60 votes.

Liz Canada: 14:43

I think this is, I'm going to say this as respectfully as possible. For regular people who don't think about this all the time, which is almost everyone.

Nicole Clegg: 15:03

Yep.

Liz Canada: 15:04

Folks might assume that the Senate is like whoever has more senators gets everything they want. That's not the case for the most part. It's usually, as you just said, 60 votes are necessary out of 100. So this, and the words are so wonky, but budget reconciliation, that's different where it is a simple majority. And so what is... Tell me more about that, because I think that's helpful for folks to maybe understand. Yeah.

Nicole Clegg: 15:43

This one exception is budget reconciliation. And because we know there are not 60 votes in the Senate to pass a restriction on reproductive rights and freedoms or to target Planned Parenthood. They couldn't ever pass that in the Senate. So the only option they have is budget reconciliation. And so the bill that has passed the House and is now being worked on in the Senate includes language that targets Planned Parenthood and says we can no longer participate in the Medicaid program, which is outrageous. Who bothers to target a particular health care provider and say that you can't

Liz Canada: 16:24

Right.

Nicole Clegg: 16:54

do this. This is a priority of Congress right now. And they are targeting Planned Parenthood and kicking us out of the Medicaid program is going to cost the government $300 million. Yeah.

Liz Canada: 17:03

Just a deep sigh about that impact. And all of it comes down to a few lawmakers, enough lawmakers who hate abortion. Like, is that what it really is at the end of the day? Is that they're trying to...

Nicole Clegg: 17:17

Yes.

Liz Canada: 17:18

It feels like they're just trying to ban abortion knowing they can't pass a bill that would ban abortion.

Nicole Clegg: 17:53

We are, across the country, Planned Parenthood affiliates provide abortion care. And we are a critical part of that health care network. If we all stopped providing abortion care, this defund wouldn't impact us. It is specific to the fact that we provide abortion. So in case there is any question about the motives and what they might be claiming, it's all about, let's go after the largest national health care provider and try and shut them down because that'll be our best way of removing access to abortion in a state like New Hampshire.

Liz Canada: 18:02

And potentially in a state like Vermont. We talked about this in that episode with Kayla, where you have these constitutional amendments and protections, but the federal lawmakers who are anti-abortion are trying other strategies to affect those states regardless.

Nicole Clegg: 18:19

Yeah. Yeah. They're not done. I mean, this whole line about, we're just giving it back to the states is just a complete lie because they've taken care of that. They have restricted abortion across half of the country. That is not what this is about. This is about going into states where it's legal and making it impossible to access there. And that should make people really mad.

Liz Canada: 18:41

It makes me pretty mad. Yes, I think it makes a lot of people mad because abortion is health care. It is not actually controversial. Every time I hear someone say that abortion is controversial, I'm like, call a timeout. I'm like, actually, it's not. Planned Parenthood is wildly popular. Folks want health care and they don't want the government to take it away. And this is a strategy that these folks are using in D.C. to impact states where folks probably assume they're safe and won't be impacted by their state lawmakers.

Nicole Clegg: 19:12

Yeah.

Liz Canada: 19:13

Boy, oh boy. Roe v. Wade was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, but the court decisions and fights in the courts aren't done. Like, why does this keep happening, Nicole? Like, why are there... Aren't they done? Shouldn't they be over now because they accomplished what they wanted to? What are we seeing happening in the courts across the country, you know, generally speaking? And... Are our Junes ever going to not involve worrying about the Supreme Court?

Nicole Clegg: 20:06

Right. So what's the Hamilton song? You'll never be satisfied?

Liz Canada: 20:36

First of all, I love a musical theater reference. It's my favorite thing in the world.

Nicole Clegg: 20:36

But did you want to associate it with anti-abortion extremists?

Liz Canada: 20:36

No, I did not.

Nicole Clegg: 20:36

They'll never be satisfied until abortion is 100% illegal and unavailable in our country. They are going to pursue every pathway, that includes the courts. The reality is they can't pass an abortion ban in Congress, they're going to do it through the Court. And it doesn't necessarily look head on, it's going to be some sneaky way, like let's call into question the medications that are involved in the medication abortion, even though they're incredibly safe and have been used for decades around the world. They are now going to use junk science and make up things to try and claim that people shouldn't have access. That's an active court case right now, where there's a direct threat on medication abortion, which is the majority choice for people. They won't stop. And so we won't stop. Right? We're going to see it in Congress, we're going to see it at the legislature, we're going to see it at the courts. I mean, part of it is a death by a thousand paper cuts, right? It's to just exhaust us, deplete us in, you know, any way possible. But, you know, we are a resilient group. Like, you know, they, you know, come at us one way, we move to the other. And I mean, they certainly have had some wins, but we're still here. We're still providing care.

Liz Canada: 21:26

Yeah, the Supreme Court isn't changing anytime soon. And so the battles will continue. There have been folks who've asked, like, do we have do we have wins? Where are our wins at the federal level or in the courts? Like, does that does that happen? Or are our wins different than that?

Nicole Clegg: 21:50

Well, I mean, you know, certainly. You've had wins in New Hampshire.

Liz Canada: 21:53

We've had some wins.

Nicole Clegg: 21:54

And we have wins in the courts. I mean, sometimes it's surprising when it's like a Trump-appointed justice that is like, this is so outside of the realm of normal law. We're not going to accept this. We'll see the challenges to mifepristone, which is one of the pills that's a part of a medication abortion. We can win there in the courts. Now the challenge is, we win in the courts, but we have RFK who wants to sort of dismantle the FDA and put on people who aren't scientists who might be willing to rewrite the FDA drug rules for mifepristone. So you know it's a bit of a whack a mole, like we might knock it down here and then we're gonna have to go fight it over there. I mean, we'll see what the Supreme Court does this session. There are some cases before them that have to do with access to reproductive rights and Planned Parenthood in particular. You know, so we'll I mean, we'll see where they land. I mean, we do have wins and like, you know, we we're winning in popular opinion, like overwhelmingly. And, you know, I think that we've had wins during different elections. But, you know, people the way people vote is complicated. And, you know, if we have a straight up question about abortion, it's going to win. But when it's about a candidate, it's not as simple as like, well, they're pro-choice or they're anti-choice. I mean the thing we do know is that when Trump was running this time, his staff sat down with a memo in October and said, if we don't modify your position on abortion, you're going to lose. And that's when all of a sudden he started to, you know, tweet or truth social or whatever it is about how he would veto an abortion ban. And, you know, Elon Musk all of a sudden started spending millions of dollars online in ads targeted at young people to confuse them about his position on abortion. So they know it's a losing issue. I mean, do I wish that like they knew it enough? So we'll have to probably teach him this lesson again, you know, next November. But there are wins. And, you know, and I say this a lot to staff, especially the staff in the health centers who, you know, they're like so frustrated. They're like, what do we do? What do we do? And like, how do we show our defiance? And and, you know, I'm like your acts every day of providing the high quality, nonjudgmental care that you do is an act of defiance.

Liz Canada: 24:23

That's absolutely right. They are providing life saving care, excellent health care, reliable care where a patient can go in and know I am getting the best health care I possibly can. And that matters more than me showing up at the state house in my little suit and tie.

Nicole Clegg: 24:38

Well, don't undersell yourself.

Liz Canada: 24:40

Yes, but it's also like that is why we do the work that we do is because we have...

Nicole Clegg: 24:45

Yeah,

Liz Canada: 24:46

we're fighting for the health centers and for the providers at the health centers and the patients. Nicole, you always do a really great job for the staff to offer us glimmers of hope and optimism and sort of forward looking direction. If I'm listening to this podcast and I'm feeling really bummed out because like the Trump administration and this budget, all these things are happening. What is the hope you see out there for our three states, or dare I say, the country, if possible.

Nicole Clegg: 25:18

This will pass. It will pass. It's going to require us all to stand up. And take action and, you know, speak out for what we care about. But, you know, actually just communicated this to staff because, you know, next week is the federal holiday of Juneteenth, right? And you think about the, you know, this incredible journey for one, eliminating slavery, but then also civil rights. You have to take the long view. You cannot just think about like this moment in time. You have to sort of look at like, how am I going to get to, you know, the that arc of justice. And, you know, we like good stories, right? You're a storyteller.

Liz Canada: 25:59

I love a story.

Nicole Clegg: 26:01

We want a narrative. And so we always try to put the narrative together. So it's like this one big thing happened, like Luke destroyed the Death Star. And that's what got us through, you know.

Liz Canada: 26:11

I love a Star Wars reference. This is very exciting. Okay.

Nicole Clegg: 26:15

But that's not what the real story is, right? It's thousands of little actions. It's the protests that we all participate in. It's the calls that we make. It's the conversations that we're having. That's what really tips the scales. And so I understand, it's easy, if you just want to scroll, to get lost. We know that this is what happens. Crazy thing is there were a lot of people who voted for Trump who love Planned Parenthood.

Liz Canada: 27:02

That's so mind boggling. For me, someone who works at Planned Parenthood, like it is really mind boggling because it seems so like a disconnect. It feels like a disconnect.

Nicole Clegg: 27:13

And so it's our job to connect the dots. You know, it's helped them to see that your vote here, you know, and maybe you were mad. Maybe you wanted change. Maybe, you know, it's a symptom of distrust. That wasn't the path. If you love what we do and you want to protect what we do, it's a different path to get there. And I do fundamentally believe that that's what's going to get us through, I mean, four years. Four years is a blip in our history. And I know I don't want to say that in a way that's cavalier to the people who are really getting hurt right now because there are lots of people living in fear and like afraid to leave their homes. And that is a travesty. But I do think we will organize ourselves, and you're seeing that, right? Like you're seeing more protests and more action. That's what it's going to take. And it's going to take a lot of it for us to get to the other side. But we will get there.

Liz Canada: 28:06

I'm going to believe you, Nicole, because I am, you said earlier, half empty, half full.

Nicole Clegg: 28:16

You don't have a choice.

Liz Canada: 28:25

I have to believe you on this one. What is the one thing you would have someone do right now, because there are rallies and protests, if they care about abortion rights?

Nicole Clegg: 28:27

Talk about it and talk about it online. Talk about it with their friends. Make this a normal part of the conversation. I mean, you know, even though like we are talking so much more about abortion than we ever have in history, it's still shrouded in a lot of like shame and stigma. And, you know, people can be afraid to like, do I bring this up?

Liz Canada: 28:46

Right.

Nicole Clegg: 28:46

Am I allowed to talk about this?

Liz Canada: 28:48

Say the word abortion. It is OK.

Nicole Clegg: 28:50

The more you talk about it and treat it as health care and talk about like these are normal human decisions that people make in their lives, the better off we are. And I'm going to put an asterisk next to it, though, and just say that men have been left out of this conversation. And rightly or wrongly, like, I think that, you know, in some ways, you know, the movement for abortion rights came out of the women's movement came out, you know, like it brought women together and sort of made them activists and feminists. It did, you know, and there was power and like incredible progress as a result of that. It didn't create I mean, like we haven't successfully created space for men to come into this conversation with us. And we do need to do that. They need to see how this connects to their lives in the same way. And so I would say, talk about it and then talk about it with your brother. Talk about it with your colleague or neighbor. Let's not be afraid of bringing up this conversation and saying, hey, this really matters to me. And I don't know if you've thought about it, but can we have a conversation?

Liz Canada: 29:48

Welcome, men. We are here. Come on over. We're delighted to have you here. I know we talk about and abortion with our two sons our two kiddos and I think they they have actually started talking to me about they don't say the word stigma but they they say like well Liz you work at Planned Parenthood I can't tell people where you work and I'm like oh you already see that in middle school like they're already sort of feeling that sort of you know abortion is something we don't we can't really talk about and we have to dismantle that perspective. We have to address that head on. We can't we can't shy away from it or else it just the cycle continues. So welcome to the show, men. We're here to invite you in to the conversation.

Nicole Clegg: 30:31

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, as I'm also a parent of a son and I mean, one, I think most of the time he rolls his eyes because he's like, Mom, do I have to hear about this again? But, you know, like that is like my responsible parenting.

Liz Canada: 30:44

Exactly.

Nicole Clegg: 30:44

It's like you you have to understand and see what this means for your mom and for the other people in your lives who depend on this care.

Liz Canada: 30:53

Absolutely. That's our jobs as the parents of the boys to help them grow up to be the best men they can be. Okay, you do get to go to all the health centers, Nicole.

Nicole Clegg: 31:02

I do.

Liz Canada: 31:03

Can you give me just like a little flavor of what you've seen out in the health centers and what they're doing out there in their health centers?

Nicole Clegg: 31:10

I mean, well, first of all, they're lovely. You know, we are intentional about the space that we create. And, you know, part of that is we want to communicate to everyone who walks through our doors their value, and they are important to us. And so if you walk into any of our health centers, they're like bright and cheery and colorful, and there's fun music on. I mean, although like it depends on the health center, what the definition of fun music is. But there's a lot of yacht rock out there, I'll be honest.

Liz Canada: 31:36

So not the same as like show tunes. Okay. Well, we all have our different opinions and what excitement is. Okay. Yeah.

Nicole Clegg: 31:43

You know, so you walk in and you're immediately welcomed into a space. And our patients say this all the time. I've never been listened to the way I've been listened to here. You know, I've never been treated with respect. Like that breaks my heart, really, when you think about somebody who might be in their early 30s who has had, you know, three decades of experience in the health care system and no one ever really asked important questions for them. We provide all kinds of care, and I think that that surprises people. We recently did a very fun campaign around menopause care.

Liz Canada: 32:17

I love this campaign. We can come up with some jokes right now about it because it's my favorite thing. If you ever returned a video t o blockbuster video, it might be time to start thinking about perimenopause.

Nicole Clegg: 32:29

Or what about the mixtapes?

Liz Canada: 32:31

Yep. If you made a mixtape for someone you liked, yeah, there's that one. If you had the slap bracelets.

Nicole Clegg: 32:37

Yes, yep. Or jellies. Did you ever wear jellies?

Liz Canada: 33:08

I personally did not, but I had a lot of friends that did.

Nicole Clegg: 33:08

That was a really fun campaign. It was again about destigmatizing something that has been ignored, like this is an experience that you just have to live with. We often see people with really challenging periods or you might have some other condition underlying condition that's causing that, and they will just say, every doctor I went to just told me to just deal with it. That's just a part of it.

Liz Canada: 33:08

Oh my god.

Nicole Clegg: 33:08

That's just what you have to accept and you know so like the menopause campaign. That kind of care that we provide where folks are listened to and given an opportunity to like talk about their options and how they can alleviate some of the symptoms is really great. It's really fun. And you know our clinicians and the health center teams are amazing. We provide award-winning care. There's a survey that's called Pres Ganey that evaluates health care providers across the country. You want to guess what our score is?

Liz Canada: 33:41

An A. Wait, how are we doing scores?

Nicole Clegg: 33:43

Well, I mean, it's a number, but it's definitely an A.

Liz Canada: 33:45

So I'll say like 94%. Is that what we did?

Nicole Clegg: 33:51

Higher.

Liz Canada: 33:52

Higher. 95.

Nicole Clegg: 33:53

Higher.

Liz Canada: 33:54

96.

Nicole Clegg: 33:54

Higher.

Liz Canada: 33:54

Oh my God, 97.

Nicole Clegg: 33:55

That is it!

Liz Canada: 33:57

A plus plus. I mean, that's an A plus plus. Yes. Really? Yes. Incredible.

Nicole Clegg: 34:00

Yeah. Yeah. And my life and some of the privilege that I've had in my life, like, you know, I've not been in a time when I didn't have health insurance or I didn't have options to get care. There are lots of people that don't have health insurance and don't have the ability to enter into the health care system. And to walk into a warm, welcoming space, be treated with respect and get some of the best care in the country, it says something about your value as a person. And that, I mean, like, I couldn't be more proud to be a part of an organization that does that.

Liz Canada: 34:31

That's the hope we need to end on right there. Nicole, thank you so much for taking the time and chatting with me about this and for doing this work and leading the organization in maybe the hardest time possible, like given the landscape nationally and what we are facing, you know, not just after Roe fell, but now, like in this current administration, it's like all the odds are against us and you keep... Steering the ship and going forward.

Nicole Clegg: 35:06

Do I stay on target?

Liz Canada: 35:07

You do. You do. And you are going to blow up the Death Star. I'm pretty sure.

Nicole Clegg: 35:12

I mean, well, I don't have to be the one to blow up the Death Star. I just want to help Luke get there.

Liz Canada: 35:17

Do you want to be Han Solo who flies in and helps?

Nicole Clegg: 35:20

Let's go, kid.

Liz Canada: 35:21

Yes. You know what? You could be Han Solo. Halloween costume idea.

Nicole Clegg: 35:26

Well, Princess Leia has always been my jam.

Liz Canada: 35:28

Oh, okay.

Nicole Clegg: 35:29

Yeah. I mean, well, when I was young, she was the first badass like female lead that like just owned her space. I mean, like she's this tiny little woman and she like owned her space and like was fearless. I've been in love with her forever.

Nicole Clegg: 35:40

She is such a great character overall. Powerful, sassy, snarky. Unafraid.

Liz Canada: 35:59

Yeah.