Liz Canada: 0:00

What would the state need to do to make that happen in New Hampshire?

Erica Diamond: 0:04

Yeah, so you would need a physical space. You'd also, again, need the funding to do so. But I think it's also a coordination piece. The biggest F word

Liz Canada: 0:12

on this podcast. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Erica Diamond: 0:18

Yeah.

Liz Canada: 0:27

Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that dares to ask, is homelessness a problem in New Hampshire? All right, you want to hit it? Erica or Lauren, who's going to take it? I'm

Lauren Bombardier: 0:39

going to

Liz Canada: 0:39

let Erica do it.

Erica Diamond: 0:40

Yes, Erica, let's hear it. Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, where we dare to ask, how do we love our community better?

Liz Canada: 0:46

Ugh. It's just so good. See, I love this about guests because I go in and I'm like, I'm going to be a pain in the bum. And then the guest is like, I'm going to say this beautiful tagline that is the best thing ever. And I think it is a question that is applicable for every episode, but especially this one where, you know, maybe in a lot of folks' minds, folks who are unhoused, people feel like they're not part of the community for some reason, when in fact, they're as much our community members as anyone else who's here. So That's an excellent tagline and tragically accurate as well. So I am your host, Liz Canada, and joining me today are two people. I've never actually had two guests on the podcast yet. You are my like initiation into multi guest podcasting. Hope it goes okay. We love to be the first. Yes, the pioneers first in the nation first on the podcast, something like that. So my guests today are two folks from families in transition, Eric Erica Diamond and Lauren Bombardier. Welcome to the show, Erica and Lauren. Thank you for being here.

Erica Diamond: 1:54

Thank you for having us.

Liz Canada: 1:56

Of course. I am so excited that you are here because quite a few episodes ago, I had Nick Taylor on to talk about housing, affordable housing, housing affordability, and we just barely touched on the topic of homelessness and unhoused folks. And a few listeners reached out to me and they're like, you need to get Erica Diamond and Lauren Bombardier you're on this show now. Here you are. Thank you for being the experts to come talk to me because I've learned a lot in my time on this earth, but I'm always learning more and I'm hoping you can help me better understand what's going on in New Hampshire. What is families in transition? What do you all do on a day-to-day basis at your organization? Because I think it'll help folks to know What does your organization do?

Lauren Bombardier: 2:43

So families in transition, right? Our mission is to prevent and break the cycle of homelessness. And we do that in a few different ways, right? We're not for profit and we are located in Manchester and we provide housing services. We have a couple of buildings in Concord as well, but to prevent and break the cycle of homelessness, we do it in a few different ways. So we have affordable housing. I think first and foremost, I think we would all agree in our organization that homelessness is affordable housing issue so we have 240 units of affordable housing you know you just had on nick taylor and he talked about housing really eloquently so smart we have affordable housing transitional housing and permanent supportive housing we have three types of housing along with housing we have shelter shelter does not end homelessness you are still So sheltered,

Liz Canada: 3:36

meaning you're at an individual's at an emergency shelter or is in like a motel, like has received some sort of support in staying at a hotel or motel. Are both of those considered sheltered or is it specifically like at an emergency shelter?

Unknown: 3:53

Yeah.

Erica Diamond: 3:54

Those are both considered sheltered as well as transitional housing, which is a form of housing where you stay in that housing for up to two years. Oh, okay. And then are expected to, with support, with case management, move on into a more permanent housing situation.

Liz Canada: 4:13

Right. So when I had students, I worked out in Denver, I was a high school teacher. I had students who were with their parents going from hotel to hotel Bopping into grandma's house, staying on the couch in the living room for a few days, and then bopping around. That family would be sheltered. Well,

Erica Diamond: 4:32

there is a distinction.

Liz Canada: 4:33

Here's the issue.

Lauren Bombardier: 4:35

When they're doubled up, they're not sheltered. They're not counted.

Erica Diamond: 4:38

So if you're staying on a friend's couch, if you're staying in a spare bedroom of your parents' home, that is not considered homelessness under the HUD definition. So when we're talking about homelessness, we're generally using the terms as defined by the Housing and Urban Development.

Liz Canada: 4:57

Yeah. Okay. This is so helpful. Lauren, I'm sorry to have interrupted you. No worries. Interrupt, right? This is great. This is really

Lauren Bombardier: 5:03

great. And I talk fast, so tell me to slow

Liz Canada: 5:05

down too. I talk fast too. I'm from New Jersey. Let's just keep going.

Lauren Bombardier: 5:09

Thank you. We have the adult shelter, which has 138 beds. We have a family shelter, which has 46 beds and 11 units. We also have a food pantry, a substance use program. Our adult shelter is the largest in the state. We're seen as a place that lots of individuals throughout the state come to as a place that they can receive shelter.

Liz Canada: 5:30

And

Lauren Bombardier: 5:31

then one of the things that I think, For our organization specifically, is that being a hand up and not a handout, and that's through case management services. So we have case management throughout our housing program. It's not easy to move into a housing unit when you are homeless, right? It takes time to get used to being housed. Like our case management team works to keep individuals housed, right? Working with them was... buying furniture, how do they function in a home, cleaning their home. It's hard to live in a house when you've been in a shelter or in a place that's uninhabitable for a human being. So you have to learn how to live in a home.

Liz Canada: 6:10

So I like to start every episode with a simple question. Is homelessness actually an issue in New Hampshire?

Erica Diamond: 6:19

Yes.

Unknown: 6:22

Yes.

Liz Canada: 6:22

A big one. Period. Yes, period. A big one indeed. Okay, so tell me more, because I think a lot of folks might assume New Hampshire, big, beautiful, rural, granite state, and might not associate homelessness with the state. So it's an issue, but how big of an issue? Lauren, you said a big one. How big of an issue is it here in New Hampshire?

Erica Diamond: 6:44

I'd say it's big, and it can and likely will become bigger. Oh. And... It's almost a little bit of a loaded question to answer how big, because there's sort of two different metrics through which we measure homelessness and the rates of homelessness and how many people are homeless.

Liz Canada: 7:06

I have no idea. So like, how do you know how many folks are homeless in New Hampshire? How does an organization know that?

Erica Diamond: 7:12

Yeah, so there's basically two ways that we track homelessness. The first one is called the point in time count or the pit count for short. We really love our acronyms in this

Liz Canada: 7:24

line of work. Everyone loves an acronym. Every line of work has their own fancy acronym. I'll go with it. Point in time count. P-I-T.

Erica Diamond: 7:34

Got it. Our pit count. So the pit count is something that happens every single year and it happens across the entire country. Oh. Every community of the country.

Liz Canada: 7:43

Oh, wow. Okay.

Erica Diamond: 7:44

So- You may not know, the country's broken up into these things called continuums of care.

Liz Canada: 7:50

Okay, I thought you were going to say the country was broken up into states. And I was like, Erica, I know that much. There are 50 of them. Quiz me, Erica. I know. Okay, so it's broken up into continuums of care. That I don't know. So what does that mean?

Erica Diamond: 8:04

So another acronym, COCs. Yes, great. So basically what a continuum of care is, is it's both a geographic region, usually drawn along county or municipal lines.

Liz Canada: 8:16

Okay.

Erica Diamond: 8:16

But it's also a collaborative collection of human beings and organizations within a community that in some way or form touch homelessness. So that can be providers like us, like Families in Transition, that's providing direct services or housing, but it can also be healthcare providers. It can be faith-based organizations, government agencies, or even just concerned citizens. It really can be anyone that makes up this continuum, wraparound continuum of care. I'd say there's about 400 in the country Each state has varying amounts of COCs. New Hampshire has three. We have Manchester COC, which is our city where FIT is located. We have the Nashua COC, which is sort of the southern bit of New Hampshire. And then we have the balance of state, which is everything else.

Liz Canada: 9:08

Everything else. Manchester, Nashua.

Erica Diamond: 9:12

Everybody else. Everything else from Portsmouth to North Country is bound state. But I bring up those three COCs because it's through those COCs that we are tracking and counting homelessness. Kind of returning to the pit count, every year across the country, every COC, which effectively covers the entire geography of the United States, has a count, both a sheltered count and an unsheltered count of people who are experiencing homelessness. It happens every on the same time on January 22nd. And it usually happens at night, somewhere between midnight and about 6 a.m. Because we are trying to count both people who are sheltered in an emergency shelter, transitional housing, a safe haven. And we're also trying to count the unsheltered. So those are people who are outside in the street, who may be in their car, who may be in a place unfit for habitability. And so we are sending basically volunteer teams out in the that down or ideally we're speaking to these people and we are getting their information getting demographic information and that's how we count homelessness in the country so

Liz Canada: 10:30

the same day across the country it is the same and it's in the winter which for us in the northern part of the country is extremely significant on January 22nd it probably feels very different than Miami January 22nd I'm making assumptions based on the geography of our country, but it's probably a different experience to be outside unsheltered in New Hampshire versus in Florida. That's really interesting.

Erica Diamond: 10:55

You kind of hit the nail on the head with one of the potential issues with using the pit count is particularly in states like ours where it's very cold. People in the coldest months of the year tend to hide themselves away or find places that are warmer to go that if you have a team of volunteers that's kind of walking in a grid pattern around the street, we may not see everyone and they may not be counted. And so that's, you know, therein lies the question, are we even getting an accurate picture of how many people are homeless? So we use a second metric as well with the pick count. And so we use the Homeless Management Information System, or HMIS.

Liz Canada: 11:33

I'm going to keep track of all these. These are all going to make

Erica Diamond: 11:36

it. We'll have to make a little cheat sheet later. That's right. So every COC uses an HMIS management system, and at any point of contact, so it If someone's accessing a shelter or services or housing from homelessness, they will be entered with their consent into this program. database, this HMIS. And it's through that database that we're able to track over the course of a year or longer someone's experience or sort of journey through the system. And so in some ways, the HMIS data is a bit more accurate because it's looking at an entire year as opposed to a single data point on the coldest night of the year.

Liz Canada: 12:22

Right. And so Organizations like yours would then put that information in at any point in the year if someone has come in and you're aware that they are experiencing homelessness. That would be part of that sort of longer-term annual review on top of and in addition to the January 22nd count.

Erica Diamond: 12:43

Yes, and I would note that this is a required thing that people have to do for certain types of funding. However, not every agency that's serving homelessness enters data into the system. So even the HMIS system can be flawed. Right. Kind of returning to your original question, how big is the issue of homelessness? The truth is it's hard to tell, but using the data points that we do have, we say that it's big because in 2023, we had a 52% increase in homelessness.

Liz Canada: 13:18

In New Hampshire alone?

Erica Diamond: 13:19

In New Hampshire alone.

Liz Canada: 13:20

Wow.

Erica Diamond: 13:21

We were first in the nation, number one for the highest rate increase in homelessness. Really? In 2023.

Liz Canada: 13:29

Wow. Wow. Why? Why did that happen? That's probably an even more complex question, but that's my immediate question is like, why did it increase so much?

Erica Diamond: 13:41

So it's a combination of things. There's a lot of different things that go into homelessness. And to be fair, for the record, it did decrease by 8% in 2024.

Liz Canada: 13:53

But that was still a big, a big jump in 2023. Yeah. Wow. Yeah,

Erica Diamond: 13:57

we went from... 1,474 people in 2022 to 2,441 people in 2023. Holy smokes. According to the PIT count. And if you go to the HMIS count, it's over 6,000 people. According to HMIS, we have 6,806 unhoused individuals, which is higher than the population of 80% of New Hampshire communities.

Liz Canada: 14:23

Holy smokes. That is... Okay, so when I asked you how big of an issue and you said big... That's what we mean. Really, really big issue. Holy smokes. What leads to folks becoming homeless? How does that happen? And I'll just give a quick caveat to say, I said this to Nick too and he made fun of me a little bit, but I'm on our town's budget recommendations committee, right? And the subcommittee that I'm on is the, one of them is the welfare office. And I have learned so much about how our town supports folks to make sure that they can stay in their homes because if they lose their homes for whatever reason and have to go to a shelter or have to go to a hotel, Like that adds so many more complexities to them being able to get back into housing. So like there are offices in our towns that are there to support folks as well, in addition to organization. So I've just, it has been really eye opening to hear about those types of stories of folks trying to keep them in their homes and support them there because so many challenges occur once that housing is gone or lost for whatever reason. So that is a long way for me to ask the question, what leads to housing? to someone being homeless in New Hampshire, being unhoused.

Erica Diamond: 15:36

So we have a simple answer and then we have a more complicated answer. Let's just say simple and just cut it. No. So the short answer is that homelessness results from a lack of affordable housing.

Liz Canada: 15:50

Yeah. And... Boy, are we lacking it in New Hampshire. If I've learned anything on that episode with Nick, we really do not have any. We don't have very much, I should say.

Erica Diamond: 15:57

0.6% vacancy rate. It's wild. Very

Lauren Bombardier: 16:01

small. Eric and I both have so many stories, right, that we have heard. I hear a lot... Oh, wow. Or they've been evicted from their apartment, which we hear more about lately about developers are selling and buying apartments. And then they're out of rent. Rent can't go up $2,000, $1,000. They can't swing that a month. Eric, I know you have a plethora of stories too. Yeah.

Erica Diamond: 16:42

And I'll just add, you know, when we're talking about the aging or elderly population, generally what we mean is people who are 65 and older. And that's definitely the... most rapidly increasing population in homelessness. About one in five people who experience homelessness are in that 65 and up category, and it's only increasing, especially in a state where we have some of the oldest people in the country.

Liz Canada: 17:09

One in five? Yeah. Yes. And that's just, you're just talking about New Hampshire. You're not talking about the whole country. So

Erica Diamond: 17:18

that's actually for the whole country. Oh, that's the whole country. Yeah, but it's the same trend. But still, still shocking. Yeah. It's closer to one in four in New Hampshire. Okay, so worse is what you're saying, Erica. Are over 65, yes. So

Lauren Bombardier: 17:32

Liz, if you came for a tour of our adult shelter, we talk about it often is that the population of our adult shelter is aging, right? And a couple of years ago, it was 45 was the average age. Now it's 47. I mean, that doesn't seem like a big jump, but that's significant when you walk through the adult shelter and you see people who are elderly there. You know, they're living out their later years in life at the adult shelter, and that's not a place for them to be.

Liz Canada: 17:55

My mind is boggled right now. You know, yes, we are an aging state. And of course, logically, I guess, like if we are an aging state, then therefore also the folks who are experiencing homelessness are also of an aging demographic. But I'm just going to be honest, it hadn't occurred to me. Like, that's really, really wild.

Erica Diamond: 18:17

Yeah, and I mean, I think part of it is, you know... people who are older tend to be on a more fixed income. As the rental rates are increasing year over year, but the amount that they're getting on a fixed income is not keeping pace with that. We're seeing more and more elderly folks winding up in homelessness or in kind of unstable housing situations. We also see that as families are struggling more now with their finances or being able to keep themselves stable, it's more difficult for them to maybe take in Right. Right.

Lauren Bombardier: 19:14

They're waking up, they're going to work, but they have medical bills, life is expensive, and there's no affordable housing.

Liz Canada: 19:21

So there's the question of how does someone become homeless, which is lack of affordable housing.

Erica Diamond: 19:26

And I'd say lack of affordable housing paired with a lack of social support systems. So you can't really have one without the other. It doesn't suffice to simply put someone into a home and then say, great, you're no longer homeless. High

Liz Canada: 19:40

five. Here's your key. Off

Erica Diamond: 19:42

you go. I think that's where the idea of... know how do we as a community create that safety net or that that support system to really keep people housed so it's really like a two-part system of we need more housing but we also need to make sure that we're putting in the supports in place to help people maintain that housing and i mean i think again talking about the elderly or talking about you know someone who may need um like health care or who's working you know like we are seeing cuts to medicaid for example and so when you're losing that support, if you're cutting Medicaid and there's 46,000 granite staters who are going to be affected by this big Medicaid cut from the big beautiful bill. But there's a trickle down effect, right, of that.

Liz Canada: 20:29

Not the trickle down effect they want to happen from this bill, but the trickle down of negative impacts on everyday folks.

Erica Diamond: 20:36

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think that that's an example of a social support system that's being cut or defunded and then taking that away doesn't help people maintain housing. Right. And that's why we need supports like child care, employment help, veterans affairs. If someone's a veteran, that is actually the one thing that we do right in New Hampshire is helping our homeless veterans. Okay. Another first in the nation. Okay. We are actually in that same 2023 report where we were 52% homeless up in our homelessness rate, we actually were the best of any state in reducing the rate of homelessness in veterans specifically.

Liz Canada: 21:21

Wow. Okay, we'll take that stat. That's a positive stat.

Erica Diamond: 21:25

That's good to hear. And it's because we put funding into it. We put a lot more funding into it.

Liz Canada: 21:30

Well, well, well. Have we hit maybe a thing that could solve some of these issues is maybe funding.

Erica Diamond: 21:38

And I'd also say there's more of a... How do I put it? There's more of a social acceptance for veterans and then wanting to help veterans who are experiencing homelessness as opposed to some of the other demographics that we see. We talked about elderly, but you know, Another big demographic that we're seeing rising is children, so youth 25 and under. There's a very large increase in youth homelessness, and particularly in the LGBTQ community. They're very overrepresented in the homelessness population. About 40% of youth who are homeless identify as LGBTQ+. That is a national statistic, but we're seeing very similar parallels in the New Hampshire data as well.

Liz Canada: 22:26

Some of that, I imagine, is likely because they have been rejected from their homes by family members or whomever and now are outside of the home that they have been in for so long. That's really horrifying.

Erica Diamond: 22:40

It's horrifying. It's terrible. And I think that it's also a good point of comparison where you see, you know, A child may identify one way or another, may not be getting the same kind of supports as maybe a veteran as far as like funding or the social supports that are available to them.

Liz Canada: 23:02

Yeah. That's scary. It's scary to think about that some folks, at least in how actions happen, how funding goes out, to think that some folks who are homeless are maybe higher priorities, higher targets for supporting them versus others. That's lots of process there.

Erica Diamond: 23:22

I think it's partly built into the common misconceptions about homelessness and what do people think of when they think of someone who's experiencing homelessness. And it's not always just the middle-aged man on the street corner. It's your grandmother. It's a child. It's...

Liz Canada: 23:40

a mother. Yeah, what are the misconceptions? Because I think that's a really good one to dig into. What have you found when you talk to folks?

Lauren Bombardier: 23:48

I mean, I think that what we see all the time is what Erica just said, like everyone thinks it's a middle-aged man on the corner, right? Panhandling, asking for money, someone who is scary or dirty. When we provide tours of our programming, I would say that's not how people feel at all, right? Everyone in the shelter, we have an adult shelter, right? Right. Yeah. unclean person it's that's not what we see for homelessness um we're seeing a lot of people like people who are working who are one paycheck away right a lot of americans are one paycheck away from being homeless right yeah their families their individuals but with the price of life and and housing housing

Liz Canada: 24:48

right sometimes it's impossible transportation like this is not a state that is really walkable there's a lot of places you can walk to yep child care all of those things are expensive yeah

Erica Diamond: 24:59

The main misconception, I think, is that just it's not what you see in the media. It's not what you immediately think of. I think another misconception I would add is that it's not easy to get I think that there's sometimes this idea of like, why don't you just get an apartment? Why don't you just get a job? Why don't you just? And there's so many barriers, even if you've accessed the right resources, even if you have help that can prevent you from actually getting to that point of being housed. So there's eligibility requirements. So there may be certain units or certain apartment buildings that you qualify for or don't based on your family size, based on your income, sometimes based on like disability. Yeah. It all compounds that even if you're at that precipice of being housed, you can still be hit with a wall or a barrier that's preventing you from getting those keys. So I think that that's another misconception that it's not, though I wish it were, it's not as simple even as just getting a house or finding an apartment. There's a lot of steps that lead up to getting into that home. And I think that that's, again, where that case management support network, those social services really play a big role is helping helping guide people through those often very complicated barriers.

Lauren Bombardier: 26:18

Erica, I think that's a really good point because when we have a unit that opens up, the next person on the list just can't move in. The units are specific to

Erica Diamond: 26:27

funding types, to contracts on the building. Oh. It's not as simple as we have a vacancy, let's put someone right in.

Lauren Bombardier: 26:36

And I don't have the number off the top of my head, Erica. Do you know what our wait list is for our housing?

Erica Diamond: 26:41

The last time I checked, which was a couple weeks ago, it was sitting around like 400 people.

Lauren Bombardier: 26:47

On our wait list for our

Erica Diamond: 26:48

housing. We get about 100 calls a week into our intake department of people looking for housing. And at our family shelter, it's about 25 families right now who are on the wait list.

Lauren Bombardier: 27:02

And those are families that are in uninhabitable locations,

Erica Diamond: 27:05

right? They're living in their car. They're living in an abandoned building. They're living on the side of the road.

Lauren Bombardier: 27:10

Our intake coordinator spends about 45 minutes on the phone to make sure to work on diversion and prevention measures, which could lead to they could be doubled up. Like that's a better place for them to be with a friend or a family member.

Erica Diamond: 27:22

When we have a point of contact, we always try to do that prevention and diversion work because prevention and diversion is actually the best way to combat homelessness. If someone does not fall into that homeless cycle in the first place. That's really, you know, that's the part of our mission, the preventing the cycle in the first place, that prevention diversion. But if that's not successful, we do an assessment through coordinated entry to sort of figure out how vulnerable someone is. There's sort of a scoring component using a lot of different factors. You know, do you have children? Are you fleeing an imminent dangerous situation potentially domestic violence to assess you know who's the most vulnerable and that's how the wait list is determined so we're trying to pull the people who are most in immediate need first to get them into housing across our continuum of care and sometimes statewide. So our continuums of care organize and work together. So if someone comes into Manchester and a different continuum of care has a spot available for them, we try to coordinate when we can, if the person's up to moving somewhere else. We're constantly talking because we're trying not to stay in our little silo of, this is just Manchester. This is just a Nashua problem. It's really a statewide problem. And we're really working to figure out what can we do as a state as the wider community to address this and to help each other.

Liz Canada: 28:49

How many shelters and beds are available across the state?

Erica Diamond: 28:54

So it's a complicated question.

Liz Canada: 28:55

Okay. I didn't think that one was so complicated. So that's interesting to hear that that's a complicated question. Yeah.

Erica Diamond: 29:00

Unfortunately, I can't give you just an easy number because there's no centralized list or resource that tells you where all the shelters are in the state. On purpose? You think there would be, there's not. And I can explain why. It's because shelters come in all forms and sizes. And so when we're talking about shelter, what are we talking about? Because you have emergency shelters, like the ones that Families in Transition runs, where there's sort of like your... typical vision of a shelter, but we also have smaller shelters that may still be emergency shelter, but may not be serving 138 individuals. You have a lot of faith-based organizations doing this work, smaller nonprofits, where they're definitely doing emergency sheltering, but they may be housing one family, two people. It may be a church with a spare bedroom in the back. They may not be entering into that homeless management information system, so we're not tracking it we don't know the work that's happening you also have like domestic violence shelters certain youth shelters which operate with discretion and tend to be a bit more secretive intentionally about what they're doing and then you have things like winter warming shelters which are temporary crop up shelters specifically for the winter time to keep people warm so that they do not freeze to death so all of those things are considered shelters but it can be difficult to give a number because how many winter warming shelters are going to crop up this winter? How many churches or synagogues or mosques are providing shelter for people but aren't necessarily reporting it to these bigger databases?

Lauren Bombardier: 30:43

But I think it's important to note that we can say that we do know that 13 shelters are funded by the state grant and aid funding through the state of New Hampshire. I'm sorry, through DHHS each year.

Liz Canada: 30:57

Department of Health and Human Services in New Hampshire.

Lauren Bombardier: 31:00

Oh, I'm sorry. That was Department of Health and Human Services.

Liz Canada: 31:04

It's like I'm being quizzed. I'm like, okay, I know that one. Department of Health and Human Services. Okay, so there's 13 that receive funding through DHHS.

Erica Diamond: 31:13

Yeah, so the state does provide funding for emergency shelters. This past year, actually, Senator Birdsell... Shout out to her that she pushed through level funding for emergency shelters.

Liz Canada: 31:27

Was that part of the state budget? It's

Erica Diamond: 31:29

part of the state budget. Okay. Yep. So 2023, we received $8 per bed per day for sheltering. In 2024, we got $20 per bed per day, so there was an increase. And then there was also an emergency funding bill that went through that provided an extra $7.32. So as of 2024, we were receiving $27 roughly per bed per day that we were providing. And then through this most recent budget cycle, the funding is coming through again at $27 per bed. Okay. To put that into perspective, for families in transition, it costs about $45 per bed per day to operate the shelter. Yep. Though we have partners who say our operating cost is closer to $75 per bed per day or $100 per bed per day. In any case, the funding, we're definitely grateful for it, but it's not enough to rely solely on that one source of state funding. Right. But yeah, so there are 13 shelters across the state that are receiving that funding but there are definitely many, many more shelters that are doing the work but are not able to rely on the state for that work.

Liz Canada: 32:39

Maybe this is a bias or an assumption that I am making, but I feel like a lot of folks when they think about homelessness they might think about tents or encampments or things like that and then feel that homelessness is not an issue in their community if that isn't happening and so if somebody comes through and clears out tents it's like oh thank goodness now the problem is solved and I think that just means those folks are not no longer physically visibly present that hasn't solved actually anything but what happens when folks are cleared out of a space like that They're cleared

Lauren Bombardier: 33:14

out from the space.

Erica Diamond: 33:17

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head that when an encampment is moved or people are cleared out, it's not solving homelessness. It's merely making it less visible. That's, again, maybe a misconception about homelessness that, oh, if we're not seeing it, it's not happening. It's

Liz Canada: 33:35

not here. Like, if I don't see it in my town, then we don't have homeless folks in my town. That's

Erica Diamond: 33:40

just not true. Right. It's something that you often see when comparing cities versus rural spaces. We think, oh, homelessness is worse in cities. And I mean, there's some truth to that. The data shows there tend to be... There's more people. It's like by density, there's just more people. But it's also because there's more resources in cities and because rural homelessness often looks a bit... different. It's someone staying in a shed. It's someone staying deep in the woods. And again, if you're doing something like the pit count where you're just trying to make a grid of volunteers, I mean, there's no way to actually account for how many people are up in the North country, who knows where. The issue of clearing out encampments does not solve homelessness. And actually, it's just making it harder to see. And also what it does is if you're pushing people out, whether it's with strict ordinances or fines or things like that, people are becoming more transient. Instead of staying in one place for a long time, they're moving every few days. They're moving in the middle of the night. They're having to find different places to go so that they're not swept up. And one of the consequences of that is that outreach workers have a more difficult time of reconnecting with folks that they're building a relationship with. So you may have plan to meet up with Joe to help him get employment, help him get a phone, help him get medication, whatever it may be that he needs. And you make a plan, hey, we'll meet back here tomorrow. But if Joe has to move in the middle of the night or his tent's swept up, you may not be able to find him again, or it may be a long time before you are. And so we're losing connections with people that we're trying to help because of ordinances like that.

Unknown: 35:33

Yeah.

Erica Diamond: 35:33

What are

Liz Canada: 35:33

the answers? What can happen? What can cities and towns do? What can the state do? I heard you give a shout out to Senator Birdsell for making sure that the funding was the same from before and that it's still not enough, but that there's something to that of it at least being the same, especially with this recent state budget where a lot of services were cut. What's the answer, Erica and Lauren? Tell me what needs to happen. I

Erica Diamond: 36:01

think it's a few different things. I think the first piece is talking about what can we do at a city level and then what can we do at a state or even potentially a federal level. City levels, I think it's about getting more involved with your community. I think in a city or town setting, you have... the ability to create more impact that may be joining a zoning board.

Liz Canada: 36:26

We're back to zoning boards, baby. You all thought it was over, listener, but we are so bad. Can't get away from it. But it's true, right? Like that sort of local level to better understand, like what are we dealing with here with being able to have housing in our community?

Erica Diamond: 36:43

Yeah, it's going to a general assembly meeting for your continuum of care. Every continuum of care, usually every month or every other month is having community-wide meetings. You can find them on the Community of Care websites. Go to one. It's very enlightening. We have people who are experiencing homelessness. We have agencies providing services. We have firefighters. We have policemen. We have everyone who's involved in some way with these services showing up to these General Assembly meetings and talking about what can we do. I think at a state level, it's a little bit different because I think a lot of the onus of addressing homelessness statutorily falls on cities and towns. Yeah.

Lauren Bombardier: 37:27

Yeah,

Erica Diamond: 37:28

they do. The RSA 165.1 requires that cities and towns take the brunt of addressing homelessness and just poverty in general. We're required to support our poor and help people survive. maintain housing at a city level. But state level, one of the things that is talked a lot about in our circles that we would love to see in the near future is medical respite.

Liz Canada: 37:54

What

Erica Diamond: 37:54

does that mean? Medical respite is effectively a stepping stone between a hospital stay and returning to homelessness. Oh, okay. Yeah, so if you are someone who's experiencing homelessness or you don't necessarily have a place to go and you go to the hospital as everyone at some point in their lives will probably do. Hospitals cannot legally discharge you back to the street. So oftentimes what's happening is hospitals are discharging people to shelters or they're discharging them back to the street and just kind of not reporting it. So What happens with that is typically you would have some kind of program called medical respite where it's a place to send people so that they can recover. So if we're sending people to shelters directly after hospitalization, you're potentially putting them into a crowded congregate living space. You're potentially putting them into a place where there's bunk beds. And if you just got a knee surgery, how are you getting to the top bunk bed? You know, that kind of thing. And the shelter staff may not be prepared to address the need. specific needs of your health issue. Like the healthcare

Liz Canada: 39:01

follow-up that might be needed for someone for all sorts of issues that led you to a hospital in the first place, right?

Erica Diamond: 39:09

Right. So you may not have that. And alternatively, if the hospital says, you know, we're not going to send you back to a shelter, we're not going to put you on the street, then that means we're keeping you in this hospital bed, which then translates to you are accruing... More medical expenses that you maybe can't pay for. And we're also kind of holding a bed that someone who may... now have an emergency, can't use. So it's really kind of something that affects everyone. It's not just a homelessness issue. It's not just a hospital issue. It's a, again, community-wide issue. And every other state in New England has a medical respite program. New Hampshire's the only one that does not.

Liz Canada: 39:51

One of my least favorite start of a sentence or end of a sentence is, New Hampshire is the only state that does not.

Erica Diamond: 39:57

If someone's coming out of the hospital, potentially going into homelessness from the hospital like they are. Yeah. having one of the worst moments of their life. And it's important to note that once you're in the medical respite, not only are you receiving the medical care from qualified professionals, but typically that's another point of contact where you can have things like case management and supportive services that are helping you line up a place to go once you're released. So that it's not just we're in medical respite and then we wind up in homelessness. It's not a delay. It's actually giving you that time to set something up while you're able to recover from it. outside of the hospital.

Liz Canada: 40:35

A stepping stone, which I think you said earlier, like the idea of it's a transition that leads into housing, leads into safety and a place to be long-term. Wowee, wow. We're the only state in New England. Okay.

Erica Diamond: 40:51

It is something that a lot of providers in our field have been vocal about, have advocated for. It is not something that's come to fruition yet.

Liz Canada: 41:03

Okay.

Erica Diamond: 41:04

And I think that that sort of leads into another sort of final suggestion, like what can you do at a city or state level, or even a federal level, is vote. Please vote.

Liz Canada: 41:17

Hi, everyone. Voting is a great thing. It's great for you and me, for folks to vote.

Erica Diamond: 41:24

Yep, yep. Vote and... call your representatives. The National Alliance to End Homelessness actually has a lot of good resources on their website. They have resources that you can take templates where you can just send your concerns to your senators, to your representatives.

Liz Canada: 41:39

Those are all excellent next steps for people. You have given us homework. You've given me homework, Lauren and Erica, both of you. We can do better in New Hampshire, it sounds like. You guys are great. It's incredible. You're doing incredible work. Thank you for all the things that you're doing.

Erica Diamond: 41:55

I think you're doing great work too. I mean, just providing a platform where we or other people can come and talk about these things that we're seeing, that we're deeply entrenched in our line of work, that people just understand what's happening in their community.

Liz Canada: 42:09

Thank you for helping inform me and probably other people as well who listen. So thank you both very much for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Liz.

Erica Diamond: 42:17

Thank you.

Liz Canada: 42:17

This was fun. I

Erica Diamond: 42:19

feel good. Yeah, I think it was great.

Liz Canada: 42:21

Amazing. I might need to have you both back on because we might need to do a follow-up.

Erica Diamond: 42:38

We will happily jump on. We'll love a follow-up.

Liz Canada: 42:43

This is horrifying. I'm horrified.