00:00:00 Pat: I have this thing because, you know, I'm seventy one years old and I can do it when I'm out and about in the in the community, I wear AARP logo, whether it's a hat or shirt or whatever. And people will come up. To me, the two most common things that people ask about are we do a thons where we will take people's documents and we will shred them for them for free, up to three boxes of them, and we do them all over the state a few times a year. And it's really very popular and people love it. They love it for a couple reasons. One, if you've ever paid to have something shredded, it's a dollar a pound. So we're saving them money. And this particular process, you put the papers right in the bucket and the bucket goes right in the truck and gets shredded. So there's no interim. There's, you know, your stuff is safe. And the other thing that people talk to me a lot about is tax aid, where we will help people and prepare their taxes for them. And I know there's hundreds of of people throughout the state. They're very busy right now, but there's hundreds of people's taxes that are prepared every year by these folks are very popular.

00:01:12 Liz: Are you talking about shredding documents? Is like, that's going to be the most popular thing I've ever had on my show, because I myself have piles all over my house of like, I can't throw this in the trash. Like I have to do something with this. So welcome to New Hampshire has issues. I am your host, Liz Canada. And joining me today are two guests to talk about New Hampshire's seniors and issues impacting seniors. Pat McDermott, the volunteer state president of AARP New Hampshire, and Kristina Fitzpatrick, the state director of AARP New Hampshire. Pat and Kristina, welcome to the show.

00:02:53 Pat: Thank you Liz.

00:02:54 Liz: Thank you.

00:02:55 Pat: Happy to be here.

00:02:56 Liz: I am so delighted that you're both able to join. We have had to reschedule this a few times because of a thousand things in the winter in New Hampshire that come up illnesses, schedules, all sorts of things that happen. So I like to do a tagline at the top of the show. Welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that dares to ask, how close am I to being an AARP member? We'll get we'll get into it. I'm wondering if you have a tagline for this episode.

00:03:26 Christina: Something about like AARP. It's more than what you think. 

00:03:31 Liz: Oh, I like that.

00:03:32 Pat: Yeah. And I was on a similar line of what you're going to learn about AARP that you didn't know.

00:03:38 Liz: What I know about AARP feels like a bit of information, but I feel like it is very applicable to, let's just say, a large portion of our New Hampshire population. So I said it as a joke ish, but I'm forty three. Full transparency. How close am I to being part of AARP New Hampshire?

00:03:57 Christina: All right. Well, AARP sees its constituency as being people fifty and older. However, a little known fact is that you can join at any age and take advantage of some of the benefits. So fun fact is that our fastest growing age segment are people in their thirties, because there are some TikTok influencers out there who found out that you can join at any age and that you can get access to the discounts, among other things. And so they love it and they're joining at a really high rate.

00:04:29 Liz: The TikTokers are taking on AARP. I love that. Okay, so what I'm hearing is I could be part of AARP right now.

00:04:37 Christina: Exactly. And if you're lucky, there will be a free giveaway when you join because there are some really good ones out there.

00:04:43 Pat: This is true. And our older folks, the over fifty folks, we like the free stuff. So that's always a enticement for us to join or re-up and to participate, but to build on what Christina said about the TikTok folks. I believe it's a true story. It could be an urban legend, but a few years ago, one of these influencers reported that there was this great deal on a trip to Europe, and you could save hundreds of dollars going through AARP travel. And so they publicize this like crazy. And so people signed up people under fifty and people in their thirties, whatever signed up to the tune of about one hundred and fifty thousand people nationwide to be members. And the CEO of AARP was saying, oh, what great, you know, membership drive tactics that you guys use to get this to happen. And it really was just kind of by accident that this influencer did it. So yeah, long story, but you can join any anytime. Liz.

00:05:51 Liz: Okay. And sounds like I can go to Europe. Maybe. This sounds incredible. The benefits are very significant. Wow. I'm loving this. What is it that AARP New Hampshire does? And what does a a r p stand for? Two part question.

00:06:07 Christina: Well, let me start there. So when our age range was sixty five and older, AARP stood for American Association of Retired People. So that that was it. But at some point. Well, when we dropped our age from sixty five to fifty retired people was no longer accurate in terms of who we represent and who we serve. And so from that moment on, we were just letters. Now we're just AARP. It doesn't stand for anything. Um.

00:06:39 Liz: You stand for lots of things.

00:06:41 Christina: We stand for lots of things.

00:06:42 Liz: Lots of things. Yes.

00:06:43 Christina: Um, so in terms of what AARP does, so we are a non-profit, nonpartisan organization. Our mission is to empower people to choose how they live as they age, and we do that in a number of different ways. One is by doing a variety of things to help strengthen communities. Another is to advocate for policies that help people live in age in New Hampshire. And then we do a lot of programming and providing of education. So some of the programming is really fun. So we talk about fun with purpose, and some of our activities lean more towards fun, and some of them lean more towards purpose through webinars and things like that. But regardless, our point is we want to educate people, give them resources and give them opportunities. So for example, family caregiving is one of our top issues. These are people who provide care of some sort to an adult with a health condition, and it can be a very isolating experience. So we provide a series of online painting classes where we tell you ahead of time what what materials you need, and then you tune in and get walked through how to paint a picture. And we hear from a lot of family caregivers who talk to us about how meaningful that is to them, because it's just an hour. It's a short break, helps them focus on something else other than the day to day challenges of caring for a loved one.

00:08:10 Pat: And I know is that you introduced us, but maybe I can expand upon that a little bit. Yeah, I'm a volunteer, so I'm not in Christina's staff. So I come from a probably a little different perspective, but I think one of the things that we do the and I agree, I love the tagline that we do fun with purpose, but I think one of the things that happens beyond that is we get people to come together, whether it's, you know, in person or online. My favorite thing is cooking. We have pretty much monthly cooking demonstrations. You can cook along with the person, or you can just watch and then go back and get the recipes. There's a real social aspect to it, and it just gets people together and people, you know, particularly people, older people may not have the, the networks that they had when they were working. And this is a great opportunity for them to get the social interaction that is so important for, for people, uh, to stay healthy as they age.

00:09:13 Christina: In addition to all the programming, we also have a very vibrant volunteer corps. So we have more than one hundred and fifty volunteers in the state.

00:09:20 Liz: Wow.

00:09:21 Christina: Pat is just one of them. I might say he's the best one, but, um, you know, these volunteers are really active. They are why? We can do as much as we do. We're a staff of five and we we work hard and we we have an impact. But because of these volunteers, we can really expand our reach. And so the volunteering fills a number of different roles. One is just that that social connection piece, it's just it's fun to see these groups of volunteers when they get together. Some of them have developed really close friendships, which is just beautiful to see. And I feel like as an adult, it can be hard to make new friends. So I'm really glad that we, um, that's sort of a byproduct of what we do. Totally. And we have stories of people who lost their spouse, and we're looking for a way to get out and do things. And so they joined the AARP volunteer groups.

00:10:17 Liz: That's incredible. And I recently had an episode with my CrossFit coach. We talked about community, how important it is to be around people who may not be exactly like you, may have different backgrounds, but just caring for other people, caring for yourself. And it sounds like what your organization, what your volunteers are doing is building community when we could feel super isolated, especially if folks are retiring or leaving the workforce. My closest buddies are my people I work with. I can appreciate that. It could feel a little bit more alone as you as you get older, if you don't have sort of dedicated space.

00:10:55 Pat: And we like to celebrate a lot and there's purpose behind that as well. We do have people with vastly different backgrounds and experiences, and it's nice to get people together, have fun, have some ice cream or play a few games. I love ice cream. Just as a thank you for the volunteers or either specific groups of volunteers or just our volunteers in general. So I think that's a big part of what we do. It sounds like play, but it's really it has a purpose as well.

00:11:25 Liz: I am thinking as we're, as we're chatting about someone who might be listening in and is like, all right, AARP is here. They're going to talk about seniors. That's probably not about me. So what's your pitch to them? What's your pitch to the listener who's like this? This episode might not be something that I have to think about.

00:11:42 Christina: I'd say one of the things that I like to point out with AARP and what we do is we are focused on people fifty and older, but if you are doing what's necessary to help adjust to an aging population and doing what's good for an aging population, you're going to help everyone. A good example is from of this kind of universal design is when the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed many years ago, one of the benefits of it was that sidewalks had developed curb cuts, so that somebody who had a mobility impairment could easily cross the street and didn't have to step off of the sidewalk to be able to cross the street. And so now we have all these sidewalks with curb cuts. That's the standard. And it does help people with mobility impairments, but it also helps parents who have strollers who are rolling their their little kids around. And that's the same with the issues that affect older adults. So we know housing is a huge issue.

00:12:44 Liz: Huge. Absolutely.

00:12:45 Christina: In the state, housing affordability and availability. And that's true for everyone. So I hear a lot about younger people and how they have trouble finding a place to rent or finding a starter home. And sometimes I hear that there's a kind of pitting that younger people against older people and older people aren't giving up their homes. They're not, you know, and if only they would change their behavior, then younger people wouldn't have this problem. But in fact, there's just scarcity and nobody's getting what they need. And, you know, older, a lot of older people would like to downsize, you know, they want to downsize into smaller homes. So maybe those are the same homes that younger people who are just you buying their first home. Maybe that's the same type of home. And there's it's not a problem that one or another of these groups is looking for that kind of house. It's that there aren't enough of those kinds of houses to go around. Totally demand. So so we're doing work, advocacy work at the state level to try to do what it takes to increase the supply of housing. And we're in a big coalition doing that. So, so I think there's probably a conception that we're about like very old people. People might think of walkers and stuff and when they think about AARP, but if you, if you dig a little and see what are the issues we're pursuing at the state House this year, what kinds of topics we write about or host information sessions about, they are things that are relevant to everyone.

00:14:21 Liz: Yeah. The housing issue is so significant. I've had quite a few episodes, and AARP came up in the first one that I did with Nick Taylor. We were talking about where are all the affordable houses, where are people supposed to live? And he talked about the coalition and that it is a very broad and diverse coalition. And that includes folks who are seniors wanting to be able to live near their family members who maybe they don't want the entire, you know, single family home just to themselves. Maybe they want a smaller unit on the property that they can build so that they can still live nearby. How do you all see that working in New Hampshire? How's New Hampshire doing when it comes to supporting seniors? Being able to live near their families, being able to have space near their family members now. How's New Hampshire doing in that?

00:15:14 Christina: There is one bill that passed last during the last session about accessory dwelling units, which was a big victory. Yes, ADUs, which is important for a lot of people. AARP had, I think, a different kind of perspective on why we thought those were so important.

00:15:33 Pat: Yeah, there's a couple of ways to look at it. One is what you were just saying was, is that someone can have a maybe a larger home, and now their children are gone and they want to downsize, but they can downsize with an Adu either in that home or attached to it or whatever, and then maybe get their adult children or one of them with their families to come back and live in the main house. That certainly is a scenario where I have a friend who lives in Nashua who's trying to do that right now. He's about my age and he's looking towards the future. He and his wife, and they want to add an Adu to their house. The flip side of that is they could put an eighty two on your house or again, next to your house, and then rent out your larger house and create some income for the older folks that they can have going forward. So it's a, it can work in multiple ways. And it's something that I think, you know, we're we're in New Hampshire. So there's local control and not all communities are embracing this, but it is a state law that allows by right ADUs to to be built under, you know, all the, the protections and the, the zoning and all of the things that are required by the individual communities. But it is allowed and we're fighting to make sure it stays that way because it takes time. You can't just say, oh, there's a new bill and you can build one. Now. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time for this to to, to happen. So we've got to keep it in play and we're working hard for that.

00:17:11 Christina: Liz, in terms of your question about how how New Hampshire is doing with adjusting to an aging population, we are one of the oldest populations in the country. So we sure are in terms of median age is around forty three. Only main is older than us.

00:17:31 Liz: That's me.

00:17:31 Christina: We are.

00:17:32 Liz: I'm literally. That's literally.

00:17:34 Christina: Me. Are the media.

00:17:35 Liz: Right.

00:17:35 Christina: There? Yes.

00:17:36 Liz: Oh, boy. Okay. Very representative.

00:17:38 Christina: We're one of only a few states where the size of the population sixty five and older is actually larger than the size of the population under age eighteen. Wow. Those are those are some real markers that we need to keep in mind. One of the things that New Hampshire is doing now, it's led by the Commission on Aging, is we're putting together a multi-sector plan for aging. And the idea is that as a population ages, we need to align our policies and programs and investments across the government to better meet the needs of the aging population and people with disabilities. And so when you do that, when you elevate the common goals that that we have in the state, it reduces duplication, streamlines efforts and resources. And so we are at the beginning stages of that, they try to keep an eye out for what are what are the issues, what are the issues in the legislature that need to be addressed? And then they've done things like a transportation needs assessment. They did a survey last year and some focus groups to find out from older the older population, what's most important to you when it comes to transportation? Because there's limited resources, we need to prioritize. And so gather information from the community, share that. And then people can use that information to make decisions.

00:19:03 Liz: We jumped into housing right away. But what are the issues that New Hampshire seniors face?

00:19:10 Christina: One of the topics that we spend a lot of time thinking about is long term services and supports. So these are the health related services that people need access to as they age. We want people to have health insurance so they can get the health care that they need. We want them to have transportation to get to their providers more and more. We want them to have access to affordable broadband services so they can take advantage of telehealth. And we also want people to be able to get the services that they need in their home, rather than having nursing homes being the only option because nursing homes are very expensive. They're very necessary. I mean, sometimes your level of healthcare need, you need a facility like that so that you get the help that you need. But oftentimes you can get a good amount of care in your home if you have the right supports and services right now. The New Hampshire system is the way that government payments are made and the requirements of different things. Our system is heavily tilted towards sort of channeling people into nursing homes rather than providing the support they need at home. And people would rather stay at home, stay in their communities if at all possible. And we need to make it more possible to do that right.

00:20:37 Liz: So what I heard. If I can speak it back to make sure that I'm getting it. Healthcare that's affordable and accessible. That's not just for seniors. That's for everybody, right? Like everybody wants affordable healthcare. Everybody wants accessible health care. All right. Check, check transportation. I'll take the controversial stance. I understand that you may not, but it feels like we don't have a lot of transportation options in New Hampshire. So transportation being more than just having to own a car that's not just for seniors as well. Literally everyone needs to get one place to another. Broadband access. All of this seems like it's applicable to everybody. Kristina and Pat and the affordable housing and being able to stay in a home and being able to stay where where you are and be able to afford it. So how's it going when you advocate for these things? Like that's that's a, that's a lot of stuff, but it covers, I think covers everybody in New Hampshire. All the Granite Staters want those things. So Pat, as a as a volunteer, as somebody who is out there representing, you know, yourself, but also the organization, like how is it going to making change in these issues?

00:21:42 Pat: These are very important issues for the fifty plus and for everybody in the state and.

00:21:47 Liz: The fifty minus.

00:21:48 Pat: Yeah. And the fifty minus. Yeah. The under fifty. And I think it's going really well. There's a long way still to go, but we're definitely making strides towards successfully as we talked about the ADUs and we've talked about we didn't I guess, talk specifically about prescription drugs, but we had some success with that a couple of years ago, getting some of those prices at least under control. What's really fun is that when we do find an issue that that we're supporting or sometimes not supporting, but mostly supporting. And we go to the legislature and a committee hearing and testify. We'll have multiple folks, some of us volunteers as well as some of the staff may testify specifically on the bill. But the real fun thing is that we'll bring a bunch of our volunteers and guess what? We'll all wear red. And so we bring the red wave. No sports team, but, you know, no political connection. But AARP's red wave to, uh, to these hearings. And believe me, the legislators notice.

00:22:56 Liz: This is reminding me of last year for the state budget. I am remembering being in Representatives Hall in the statehouse. Huge room. So for our listeners who's never been to the statehouse, it's where all four hundred of those state reps sit to take votes. And for the state budget public hearing, there were a lot of people who came out to testify. And I remember seeing those red shirts in there?

00:23:20 Pat: Absolutely. We have a group is quite a large group. Capital city task force that works on legislation. And that's the that's the crew that will show up.

00:23:29 Christina: We talk about these issues and how they are housing, transportation, broadband, healthcare. These are all topics that hit every one of us. But different groups might bring different perspectives on that. And so for example, with broadband we talk about meaningful broadband access. So affordability is one thing that affects everyone. The two that affect the older generation who didn't grow up with internet access and email and websites and everything else.

00:23:59 Liz: Listener Pat is raising his hand right now. That's fine. He's raising his hand. He's great. He does well.

00:24:05 Christina: They may not have a device, you know, they could really benefit from it, but they haven't. They don't have a smartphone. They don't have an iPad, they don't have a computer. And even if they did have that, they don't know how to use it. It's probably hard for a lot of us to remember. Learning how to use a computer. Totally not understanding how a mouse works like it is not intuitive that what you are doing with your hand out on the table is affecting the little pointer that's up on the screen, and that's just a little thing. I mean, if you haven't spent time around websites and you have those three horizontal lines that I've heard developers call that the hamburger, you wouldn't know that. If you want to find information on the website, click on that and it'll tell you all the different sections. There's a big need for. We're a rural state. We need more infrastructure investment so that we expand the availability of high speed internet. That is absolutely true, and we need money for that. But if we don't pay attention to getting people devices and helping them learn how to use them, then we're going to leave a section of people behind. So part of AARP's role is to join and work with other people to spread information, advocate, and then make sure that the voice of the older population, which is sometimes unique, is, is in there as. And it makes for stronger advocacy when you have people coming at these issues from a variety of directions, you can say it's not just about us, it's about them as well. It makes a stronger case. In general, what we are doing is trying to empower other organizations, and libraries are a place where people who need information go and they will bring.

00:25:45 Liz: They're hoping you would bring up is the libraries, because I know that our Exeter Public library, they're always like, we will sit with you. We will go through how this works. You know, you bring your device and we'll work with you. The libraries are we love the libraries.

00:25:59 Christina: So last year we had a few thousand dollars that we made available. Um, and we contacted every library in the state and said, we have some money that we can support projects that try to build digital literacy, propose something to us and we'll be able to fund some of these projects. And the Moultonborough Public Library. The director there is fabulous. And she said everybody on staff has iPhones. So when somebody comes in and wants help with an iPhone, we're all set. We know what to do. But none of them had Android phones. And so when somebody with an Android came in, they didn't know how to help them.

00:26:36 Liz: Totally. It's like a different.

00:26:37 Christina: Language so that they could buy an android and play around with it, so that they could learn how to help people who needed.

00:26:44 Liz: It. That's really cool.

00:26:45 Christina: Isn't.

00:26:46 Liz: It? I love libraries, I think they do so much more similar to what you all said, AARP. We have assumptions. Maybe we think about what you do and it's way more. I feel the same way about libraries. We think it's just books. There's so much more that is offered at the public library.

00:27:01 Christina: Absolutely. Yeah. So we've helped them. They had a bunch of small, like laptops and things that they were their patrons were using. Yep. But a small screen, small keyboard. We helped them buy bigger screens, bigger keyboards, so that people who might have, you know, trouble with their eyesight could still use the computers easily and just have that ease and that comfort.

00:27:27 Liz: Can we go back a step because we talked about broadband and technology? And I'm curious because I see in the news that sometimes there are issues related to fraud and people who are sort of being perhaps a little bit predatory. Are you seeing that in New Hampshire?

00:27:49 Christina: We have a lot of data about fraud, both nationally and in New Hampshire, and the statistics are frightening. So in twenty twenty four, people in New Hampshire reported losing twelve and a half million dollars to fraud. What? And we know that that's.

00:28:06 Liz: twelve and a half million dollars.

00:28:07 Christina: twelve and a half million dollars. And, you know, that's a vast Understatement, because there aren't that many people who are calling the Federal Trade Commission and reporting that they lost money to fraud. So it's a huge amount, and that is up twenty five percent from the year before. Bad enough it's up one hundred and fifty percent since twenty twenty. So fraud and scams are just proliferating. AI is making it that much easier to target people and make them believe something that just isn't true. And one fact that is important to remember, and this is a great example of how the issues that AARP focuses on are relevant to people fifty and older, but they are also relevant to younger people, is that the younger people are actually more likely than older people to report losing money to fraud. Oh, those who report the older people lose significantly more. So the median loss of people in their seventies is one thousand dollars per person. And in their twenties, it's four hundred dollars per person and that is for all types of fraud. If you look at cryptocurrency ATMs. So this is something that AARP has focused on a lot right now. So these are machines that you might see in a grocery store or convenience store. Smoke shop.

00:29:26 Liz: Really? Okay. I didn't even know those existed. Christina. Cryptocurrency ATMs. Yes, I am a prime target now. Now everyone knows I'm a prime target because I didn't even know those existed. What? Okay. They are. So they are real things. And they are real things.

00:29:43 Christina: There are two hundred and fifty of them here in New Hampshire. So the idea is you can take out cash from your bank and go to one of these crypto ATMs. You create a digital wallet and you can deposit your cash and have it transferred into a cryptocurrency of some kind, Bitcoin or something else like that. And what is really challenging is that the scammers know that people are unfamiliar with this, and they know that it's an easy way to steal a lot. The average amount that people are losing. Older people are losing to crypto ATM scams forty thousand dollars.

00:30:23 Liz: People's life.

00:30:24 Christina: Savings. Yeah.

00:30:25 Liz: These scammers are so good.

00:30:27 Christina: And they get them on the phone and they convince them that they are from the bank or they're from law enforcement and that they their money isn't safe, that they're going to be under criminal investigation if they don't do something about it right now. And so they will instruct the person to go to the bank, withdraw their savings. Oh, they'll keep them on the phone. Tell them how to answer the bank tellers when they ask them questions about how are you going to use this money? Because they're trying to protect people from fraud. They'll go to the one of these crypto ATMs, and then these folks will feed in a one hundred dollars bill at a time, thousands of dollars. It takes hours.

00:31:06 Liz: Oh my God. What?

00:31:09 Christina: It's so horrible. It's really, really horrible. And then the reason scammers like this is because the whole idea of cryptocurrency is that it's hard to trace. So once it's on the blockchain and it's transferred to the criminal's digital wallet, it's gone. And so we're working with police chiefs across the state to try to make there be stronger consumer protections and try to protect people from fraud, because these are criminals. They use really sophisticated techniques or psychological techniques that they use to try to get people sort of out of their rational thinking mind and into a place where they are scared. And when you are scared, do not make good decisions, right? This is pernicious. It's really disgusting that there are criminals out there who are preying on people and leaving them destitute. I mean, just the stories that you hear, just heartbreaking.

00:32:01 Liz: My mind is boggled. Oh my God.

00:32:04 Pat: The good news, Liz, is that we.

00:32:07 Liz: Please.

00:32:07 Pat: We have been working, uh, staff, uh, in particular, have been working on a bill that would provide some consumer protections, um, a daily limit. So if someone couldn't put forty thousand dollars into the machine all at once, and also a time frame where you could get your money back right now, as Christina said, you put it in, it goes in the digital wallet. That wallet then gets shifted all over the place, all over the world, and the money's gone. There would be a waiting period. The bill is still being worked on, but there is support for at least some level of, again, daily limits and some level of wait time that you could get your your money back. The problem is it gets into caregiving in a vast majority. I think it was sixty five percent of the people that get involved in these scams are sixty years or older, and if there's a caregiver involved, it takes some time for the caregiver to realize something's going on. And whether it's, you know, they're checking their monthly bank statements or they're talking to their elderly parent or whatever. Uh, it doesn't happen overnight. And so we're looking to have some sort of a waiting period that, that there's a recourse that they can come back and, and get their money back. And we're having success there. We're not as far, you know, there's a ways to go on this one too, but it's been very positive to at least get something and other states have protections as well. And that puts us in the unenviable position of if we don't have any protections, then the scammers come and pick on New Hampshire.

00:33:48 Liz: There were some words that you all just used that I have seen in writing and I have heard aloud, but I wouldn't be able to define them. Blockchain, digital wallet, like those things are so not what I understand. And so to go back to what we were talking about earlier of somebody going into, let's say a library and being like, can you help me understand how to use an iPad? That is how I am feeling right now. As you talk about cryptocurrency scams, I don't know any of those things. So for those of us who are not quite fifty years old yet, we have places where we are going to need to learn things too, because everything evolves, technology evolves, these fraudsters and scammers evolve. Boy, is that scary. What you just shared with me to think of people taking out their life savings and then putting it in a machine out of fear, that is very, very upsetting. And pat to your to your point about caregiving, like the folks who are trying to take care of their family member and have them at home and so forth, you likely think that everything is like in control and that you have it because you're all there together. And that isn't sounds like isn't necessarily the case because.

00:34:59 Pat: They're very sophisticated and they have a multitude of of different approaches. And just a quick anecdote. I was a caregiver for my mother several years ago, and she got approached over the telephone and was told that she had won a lot of money. How she won this money, she didn't know. But that was something my mother would never would have spent anything. So somebody saying that, you know, she owed a lot of money wouldn't have motivated her. But the fact that she could have won something. And of course, the kicker was, but I'm going to collect this money, going to pay the taxes on it up front. And she asked my cousin, who lived closer to her at the time to bring her to the bank. And fortunately my cousin said, no, you got to talk to Pat first. And that short circuited it. But my mother would have gone and taken money out of the bank to pay the taxes. So, you know, fortunately, she had multiple caregivers, I guess, in that that instance that were, um, watching out for her. but it's scary.

00:35:59 Christina: One thing that I would encourage everyone to think about is how easy it can be for people to fall victim to one of these scams, regardless of your age, because there are criminals who, again, are very sophisticated. They are very good at what they do and have spent a lot of time perfecting their techniques for how to steal money from people. And because of that, because these are criminals. It's really important to have empathy for people who lose money to scams. So whether it's yourself.

00:36:31 Liz: Absolutely.

00:36:32 Christina: And like how you talk to yourself about it afterwards or how you talk to a friend or family member, it's really important to lead with empathy and not say, how could you be so stupid? How could you fall for something like that? Because it's not because they're stupid. It's not because of anybody stupid, it's that they have been duped. I mean, there's somebody who has tricked them in a very sophisticated way. It takes a real emotional toll on people. In addition to taking a financial toll, especially when you think about it. I referred earlier to the fear tactics, but there's also the romance scams and those especially, I think, sound. They sound goofy. Like, why would anybody think that Brad Pitt is contacting anyone asking for money? Like, it doesn't make sense. But again, these scammers get you into a place where you'll believe things because they they're good at spinning the story and giving you the impression that they are who they say they are. And so to break out of a scam like that, if you really believe that you've found your soulmate, if you're going to get out of that scam, you're losing, not just you've lost money, you might be feeling really stupid. Like you don't want to believe that you have that it's a scam and you, you're giving up the sense of connection with this. You know, you think that you're in love with someone and someone's in love with you. And that's, you know, devastating to lose that. So it's really, really important to have empathy for people who, who have been taken advantage of by a criminal.

00:38:08 Liz: Do you have quick tips for people because listeners of this show may have family members? I mean, like you said, it could happen to any of us. What are the things maybe some quick tips we should think about in the cases where it happens, since it sounds like it's happening here in New Hampshire. This is a thing that is affecting people here.

00:38:25 Christina: It's happening all the time, all the time here in New Hampshire. So there are two things I would say. One is that while the details of scams differ, there are three hallmarks. One is that you're contacted out of the blue, whether that's on the phone or text or email, you're contacted out of the blue. Whoever it is is trying to heighten your emotions. So whether that is appealing to your loneliness or making you think that you or someone you know are going to be hurt or arrested or exposed for something. So they try to heighten your emotions and they, they impose some sense of urgency that you need to do something right now or else this bad thing is going to happen. So those are the three hallmarks. You're contacted out of the blue. They're trying to heighten your emotions and they are imposing a sense of urgency. If any of those things are happening, it's a red flag and you should step back. The other piece of advice that I've heard that I really makes sense to me is that we should all identify someone we really trust, who we'd be willing to go to and say, I just got this crazy call. Do you think it could be true? So somebody that you're willing to be vulnerable with.

00:39:38 Liz: A little gut check.

00:39:39 Christina: A gut check. And so, you know, if you're an older adult and you're your daughter or your son is, has, um, needed to take over some things, like maybe they're going grocery shopping for you, maybe you, you're, um, not able to do as much as you used to. You're probably not going to be want to be vulnerable with your child. Who's going to just think that you need even more help than you do?

00:39:59 Liz: Yeah.

00:40:00 Christina: But who is somebody that you would trust that you could go to and say like, I don't know, what do you think? You know, I'm worried or I really think this might be true, but I just don't know. And that is something that we can all do and do for each other.

00:40:16 Liz: I'm signing up, Pat, for that. For everybody who listens. If you're not sure who that should be.

00:40:20 Pat: Absolutely happy to do it. I'm the voice of reason, Liz. The voice of reason, right?

00:40:25 Liz: Somebody who you can be like, uh, just tell me what you think about this phone call that I just got or this email that I just received because, Kristina, you're so right. If you're, if your children, if a family member has had to take over some responsibilities or some things, you might have that fear, the fear of your own, you know, judgment or something happening within your family. And so you need someone else to talk to. That's the importance of community to be able to avoid these scams. My goodness. Yeah, such a good point. How's that bill faring in the statehouse to protect Granite Staters?

00:41:03 Christina: It's in the Senate right now. And it was recently voted out of committee. A strong bill was voted out of committee. And we are hopeful that it will have more than enough support in the Senate to pass. And then it will go over to the House. And there's a strong cryptocurrency caucus there and a very strong, um, a strong cadre of representatives who really believe deeply in personal responsibility and that people need to be responsible for the decisions that they make. And if the decisions that they make involve them losing a bunch of money, then they should have been more careful. And that's, uh, that's something that we're going to be combating that it's not about personal responsibility, it's about crime and crime fighting. And so that's the message that we're going to be sending. We have the support of the police chiefs and they are working this issue really hard. It's one of their top priorities as it is for us. And so I'm hopeful that that we're going to see some improvement in New Hampshire.

00:42:07 Pat: I am too I think there is definitely some support there. There's, as I said before, work to be done. I think one point that we need to make clear is that cryptocurrency in itself is not bad. It is being used as a vehicle by criminals. And so we have to make that distinction because we're not against the cryptocurrency industry at all. We're just wanting to make sure there are guidelines and protection, consumer protection for the people who are getting duped into using it in a bad way.

00:42:40 Liz: Yeah. Part of it is the unfamiliarity, sort of newer. Sure. It's something that we're not familiar with necessarily I myself not super familiar with it. And so it's using that as a tool to commit a crime. It's not that in and of itself.

00:42:53 Christina: Yep. That's right. And New Hampshire, a lot of people pride. We pride ourselves on being a crypto friendly state. We're a state that embraces innovation a variety of ways. And it's really important to remember, as Pat is saying, that this bill isn't about whether people should have access to crypto. They absolutely should. But there is a way to be crypto friendly that is still not friendly to criminals. We recognize that their people might see a tension there, and we really believe that there's not be can be crypto friendly and still make life harder for criminals.

00:43:29 Liz: Let's make life harder for criminals, please. Of all the people to make it harder for. Thank you both for sharing some of the issues facing seniors in New Hampshire. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today.

00:43:42 Christina: I really enjoyed it.

00:43:43 Pat: Yes. Me too. Very welcome. Thank you for having us.

00:43:45 Christina: And I'm glad that you're doing this podcast. You have a lot of great topics and a lot of work on top of. So you have your, your full time job and then.

00:43:53 Liz: I have my full time job. Community involvement and two teenage boys.

00:43:57 Christina: Yeah.

00:43:57 Liz: That's perfect. This and that, that. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. But it's all good. No, I enjoy this. It's been it's been really fun to make these and talk to folks about the issues that never end. Right. You just added one new issue for me. I had no idea that was even happening. So now it's a whole new issue.