Liz Canada 
Is it true that you've run over 30 marathons?

Henry Och
That is correct, 34. And I'll be running number 35 this weekend, the Manchester City Marathon.

Liz Canada 
my god, okay, that's a lot of marathons. So my first question is why? Why do you run marathons?

Henry Och

I am in the Army and many years ago I came back from a deployment with a number of other individuals and we thought it would be a great idea to run the Boston Marathon with full fatigues and rucksack and combat boots. We thought it was a great idea. So we did it. We lined up and we finished the race after we were done. ⁓ We all agreed that it wasn't a great idea.

Liz Canada 

Really?

Henry Och 
And then I said to myself, you know, it might just be easier to do this race without all of this stuff. So why don't I try it next year with just sneakers and some shorts? Let's see how that goes. And it was indeed a lot easier. ⁓ yeah, a lot, a lot.

Liz Canada 
Right.

Was it a lot? Did you go faster without all the stuff on? It's a little slightly.

Henry Och
lot faster.

Liz Canada
So thank you for entertaining my questions about running. I'm not a runner myself, but I support those who do. A friend just ran the New York City Marathon and now my entire algorithm is all marathoning because I was following her and liking all of her posts. So careful out there on the algorithm.

Henry Och
hehe

yeah, yeah.

Liz Canada
So welcome to New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that dares to ask, are we doing enough for our veterans in New Hampshire? I think that's the core question that I'm coming to this conversation with. And joining me today is the president and chief executive officer of HarborCare, Henry Oach.

welcome

to the show. Thank you for being here.

Henry Och (01:47)
Thank you for having me.

Liz Canada
I'm so happy to talk to you about the work that you all are doing because ⁓ veteran support is near and dear to our family's heart and lives because there is a very close family member who is a veteran and, you know, very important to care for those who have served. And so I'm really glad that you're here. Thank you so much for being here. I'm hoping we can start with you telling me a little bit about the work.

Henry Och (02:12)
Absolutely.

Liz Canada
that HarborCare does in New Hampshire.

Henry Och (02:18)
Sure, so HarborCare has been around for well over 40 years. It was established in the early 1980s and the original goal of the organization was to provide housing to individuals with severe mental illness. And over the course of the follow-on decades, it grew.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (02:39)
quite a bit and provided a lot more services to not only the greater Nashua community where it was originally founded, but really across the state of New Hampshire. forward to today, we three distinct service lines, the first of which is provide housing and housing supports to over 1,000 households across the state of New Hampshire.

We have our health care ⁓ service line really focuses on providing health care for those individuals experiencing homelessness. ⁓ And we have primary care, behavioral health, ⁓ addiction treatment, and dental services.

And we have a robust set of programs military veterans. And through that service line, we provide transitional housing, permanent housing, suicide prevention, ⁓ job training, and other preventive services. And we touch the lives of approximately 500 veterans a year through those programs.

Liz Canada
That's incredible. And how long have you been there?

Henry Och (03:44)
So I've been with the organization since February of 2020,

Liz Canada
Nice. so the work is with veterans and so forth, but also expanded to other folks who are not veterans, or is this specifically for veteran support?

Henry Och (03:59)
So the common thread across our many programs is that an agency working on breaking the cycle of homelessness. ⁓ And one of the special populations that we ⁓ serve are homeless veterans. But through our other programs, we help other individuals that are needed across the state of New Hampshire.

Liz Canada
Yeah, that's speaking of the topic of homelessness, I had Lauren and Erica on from Families in Transition. were previous guests. We had a sort of an introduction episode to the issue of homelessness in New Hampshire. And they shared that overall, New Hampshire is doing pretty well comparatively when it comes to

⁓ supporting veterans, maybe specifically for housing. how is it looking from your vantage point of working with folks? ⁓ Would you say that New Hampshire is doing pretty well? Do you think there are areas for improvement?

Henry Och (04:53)
Well,

Talking about the issue of veteran homelessness from a national level, the VA ⁓ really has worked pretty hard on ⁓ working on this issue over a span of well over 10 years. The population of homeless veterans across the country really has gone down quite ⁓ a bit. And I'll talk about the reasons why in a little bit. But here in New Hampshire, as of last week, ⁓ we have a total of 136

homeless veterans in various states of homelessness. ⁓ Some of them can be completely in the woods ⁓ or somewhere in one of our cities. ⁓ They can be living in a shelter like the Families in Transition shelter in ⁓ Manchester. Or they can be in transitional housing, which is ⁓ a program that we operate alongside with ⁓

another

agency called Liberty House in Manchester. So 136 veterans statewide, we're really focusing right now our efforts within the city of Manchester, where we have 32 veterans that we're working with, with the hopes of transitioning them from either an unsheltered status, a shelter status, or living in transitional housing, really getting them the supports that they need to move on to permanent independent

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (06:19)
in and around Manchester and across New

Liz Canada
How do you know that there are 136 individuals across the state? Erica and Lauren told me a little bit about like the different service providers who are connected and you know, the point in time count, But like for the sort of,

not narrower population, but for like this very specific population, how do you know that there are 136 individuals?

Henry Och (06:45)
That's a great question. So that is one of the things that really makes New Hampshire special, and that is that ⁓ the community agencies that are working on this issue have open lines of communication with each other. ⁓ So within the state of New Hampshire, we have something called the by name list. And as the name alludes to, it is a list of every single veteran in the state that has been identified as being homeless. ⁓

And we entered data into the centralized system, which is managed by the state. And every day, every week, we go into that system to determine where the veteran is, what are the needs that have been identified, and what are the gaps that need to be addressed. And that focused and coordinated effort really has led to some amazing achievements, specifically in the city of Manchester, where in partnership with Mayor Ruias in September

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (07:44)
of

last year, we set out an initiative to effectively end veteran homelessness in the city. And since that announcement we've been able to house nearly 70 previously homeless veterans into permanent housing. So it's really a testament to...

⁓ working towards ⁓ a common goal and getting the buy-in from many stakeholders.

Liz Canada
So that sounds like a really excellent system to be able to say, here are all the individuals. Let's do the outreach and find those folks and work with them. What are the challenges you face or the challenges that New Hampshire veterans are facing right now? What do they face in 2025?

Henry Och (08:31)
Well, a lot of the challenges that this population encounters are very similar to what the general homeless population encounters. ⁓ Access to primary care, behavioral health, and addiction treatment certainly is one ⁓ set ⁓ of needs that ⁓ we have.

a shortage of resources to meet. ⁓ You probably heard from my colleagues at FIT that the ⁓ available housing is also a significant challenge. And then you have the broader economic ⁓ situation that's happening not only in the state but across the country and that is that the cost of living is going up. ⁓ And one of the things that I try to...

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (09:23)
really educate people on is that the path to homelessness is, it varies from person to person. There is this ⁓ archetype of ⁓ the...

homeless or your typical homeless person and usually the tags of addiction and mental illness are associated with that. But that's not really what we see. I'll tell you a quick story of an individual, a couple actually, this was ⁓ a little bit ago now, but ⁓ I was out on an encampment walk with our teams up in Manchester.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (10:05)
And we came across ⁓ an older couple, ⁓ Air Force veteran, who was living up in the North Country. And their landlord increased their rent to a level that they just couldn't afford. They lived on a fixed income. And almost overnight, they were homeless. So they came down to Manchester to look for resources which they were not able to find until they came across our teams. ⁓

So, we have seen instances of individuals who were just simply priced out of their home. They did everything right, but the economics around them just worked against them.

Liz Canada
are folks in the North country, you find your rent is increasing What's the sort of lag time between they're in that position and they find you or they find another service provider?

how much time between I'm essentially losing my housing because of the price and I have direct support.

Henry Och (11:06)
Mm-hmm.

So I will say that the building shelters, building transitional housing facilities, they're great initiatives and we have a number of them, but they're very

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (11:22)
They're very expensive to ⁓ operate. They're very expensive to staff. And by the time that we interact with individuals in need and we place them into transitional housing, a lot of things have happened. So really, the best solution is the solution that is identified the farthest upstream as possible.

the best and probably the most inexpensive solution as well. So prevention is really what...

what we, is the space that we want to operate out of. So we do have many programs that ⁓ support individuals who perhaps are falling behind on their rents because rents have increased or have an unexpected medical expense or maybe they lost their job or their hours were reduced. So ⁓ for military veterans, we can come in and provide those temporary supports.

to help them bridge to get to a different place. And we can help them identify solutions before they get to a point where they do fall into homelessness. Now the challenge that we have is that we have a lot of great programs for military veterans, but they just don't know about them. ⁓

There's another element that's ⁓ within the military culture that for example, me as a soldier, ⁓ I see a problem in front of me. I'm going to try to figure it out.

and wearing a uniform, you're ⁓ proud to do so. And sometimes ⁓ asking for help gets very hard. So we do see that. And unfortunately, when it does get to the point where individuals are asking for help, they're further downstream and more resources are required to address the issue at that point.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah. That's really helpful to hear that like, of course, prevention is critical. there are resources at times to help folks pay for their housing as needed, ⁓ because it is less expensive to help them remain in their homes than have to.

Henry Och (13:40)
you

Liz Canada
help them find new housing or paying for hotel rooms, those types of, which are all important, but there's like the, that cost becomes a little bit higher the further into those services that you need to help provide. What are some of the barriers that lead veterans into homelessness or housing insecurity, whether in New Hampshire or beyond? You mentioned earlier that it's pretty similar to what other folks experience.

Henry Och (13:54)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Canada
Are there any unique elements to being a veteran in that way?

Henry Och (14:22)
Yeah, absolutely.

I mentioned that the path to homelessness varies from person to person. ⁓ So for a military veteran, their situation can certainly vary greatly. So for example, ⁓ if an individual, let's say, gets discharged from active duty, goes back to their community, ⁓ their support network might not be there. When you're on active duty, your support network is within arm's reach as well as

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (14:51)
⁓ a number of different resources. We have certainly seen situations where individuals leave ⁓ their last assignment, now they're back ⁓ here in New Hampshire and they're lost. And they might be struggling with some things that perhaps weren't that big of an issue when they were in uniform, but now when they're here. ⁓

they have to cope in different ways, some of them perhaps ⁓ not very healthy ways. So that's certainly something that is unique. The stress ⁓ of being in a combat situation, getting exposed to ⁓ situations that might lead to ⁓ post-traumatic stress is also something that I think is ⁓ perhaps not necessarily

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (15:48)
unique to military veterans, but it's certainly amplified given ⁓ the situations that they're in.

Liz Canada
I have a maybe too honest of a question to ask in that regard, which is what happens for folks who've served in the military leave active duty in that capacity? What supports do they have for their mental health care? Like when thinking about PTSD or other elements, like how hands-on is our military

Henry Och (16:00)
you

Liz Canada
making sure that they're getting the care that they need in that way.

Henry Och (16:22)
So the VA.

⁓ has had a lot of success over the course of the past many years in really enhancing their service delivery model. ⁓ I have had the opportunity to visit the VA ⁓ in Manchester, the VA Medical Center in Manchester, the VA Medical Center in Bedford, ⁓ Massachusetts. And I do have to say that the level of care and compassion that those

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (16:54)
teams specifically have ⁓ demonstrated to the veterans under their care really is ⁓ what ⁓ the veterans deserve. Are they perfect? No, but I really do think that there is a genuine ⁓ desire to ⁓ do better and improve.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

I think about my former students who served in the military and the types of resources they had when they returned from Afghanistan or wherever they were serving

How intentional folks were to make sure that they were getting the not just physical health care, but the mental health care upon return. And I was just curious sort of what that looks like. Is it like, OK, we want to make sure that you're connected with this provider, with the VA. We're going to set you up with appointments. I genuinely don't know how that looks for folks when they come back to civilian life, essentially.

Henry Och (17:48)
Well, I think there's...

Yeah, think there's a little bit of, unfortunately, stigma associated with seeking help. ⁓ Once ⁓ you're in the culture and then when you exit out, ⁓ it's ⁓ just an artifact ⁓ of being in the military, whether it's good or bad, ⁓ it's there.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

you talked a little bit about the progress that has happened in Manchester and across the state. ⁓ What still needs to change to reduce veteran homelessness in New Hampshire?

Henry Och (18:22)
Hmm.

Well, affordable housing is something that I'm sure you've heard quite a bit when speaking with our partners over at Families in Transition. ⁓

Liz Canada
And not just from them, but from many

other episode guests for other topics, affordable housing comes up a lot. Yeah.

Henry Och (18:39)
Yeah.

Yeah. So I think the state has certainly taken on ⁓ many discussions looking at potential innovative solutions, additional dwelling units, ADUs within private property is something that is part of the solution. ⁓

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (19:02)
having the exploring the concept of tiny homes is also something that ⁓ has come up. Exploring ⁓ more shared living options ⁓ like a

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (19:19)
⁓ single room occupancy facilities with maybe shared kitchens and dining rooms. That's also come up. actually operate a couple of those ⁓ facilities not for veterans but for other folks. ⁓

And really one of the things that is probably a longer term solution is working with ⁓ property developers and advocating for ⁓ building ⁓ affordable units within their broader projects. Now at the end of the day, these folks understandably need to make a profit and perhaps these affordable units might not necessarily help that effort

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (20:07)
effort, but perhaps advocating a mixed use type of solution for these development projects. So we're having all of those conversations and every time that we engage with property developers, we talk to them about the issue within the state of New Hampshire. I 136 veterans as of last week, that number is not insurmountable. It's very possible to get to a point where we've effectively ended veteran homelessness in

in the ⁓ state. Now that doesn't mean that they'll never be another homeless veteran, but what that means is that we have built systems that are fast-acting, responsive, ⁓ resilient to identify a veteran in need and get them into ⁓ an appropriate housing solution.

Liz Canada
How do we compare to our neighboring states like Maine, Vermont? They're both pretty rural, similar to New Hampshire. When it comes to the supports and being able to identify how many folks are out there who need housing, how do we compare to them? Although I know people in New Hampshire both love and hate comparing ourselves to other states, so I dare venture into that topic. But I'm just curious, similar sort of demographics. ⁓

Henry Och (21:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I have to say that beginning at the top. ⁓

Liz Canada
What does it look like comparatively?

Henry Och (21:34)
During Governor Kelly Ayotte's inaugural address, said that she was going to work with her administration to make New Hampshire the most veteran-friendly state in the country. And through her efforts and the efforts of many state agencies, ⁓ they're really demonstrating that. We're seeing that in action.

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (22:01)
⁓ Now it's gonna take... ⁓

a lot more time and energy to reach the goal of effectively ending veteran homelessness across the state. But looking at other states across the country, the issue is ⁓ larger, ⁓ more ⁓ complex. There are many agencies within each respective state that are there to ⁓ do good, but I think here in New Hampshire, one of the things that ⁓ I have seen that really sets us apart

from others is being able to ⁓ effectively collaborate ⁓ up and down the state. So for example, we've had

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (22:47)
this effort in Manchester, which I've talked a lot about, we also have a concerted effort over in the Keene area, as well as Concord. We have effectively entered veteran homelessness in the city of Nashua. We did that in 2017. So we know it's possible, and I'm confident that over time we'll achieve that goal across the state.

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

I know we're in a federal government shutdown right now, as of us recording on November 4th, we're still in a shutdown.

Henry Och (23:19)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Canada
What does it look like from the federal level as well in terms of ending veteran homelessness in New Hampshire?

Henry Och (23:27)
VA has been a really great, great partner ⁓ in ⁓ that space, specifically the VA Medical Center out of Manchester and the VA out of White River Junction, Vermont. ⁓ The White River Junction provides support to ⁓ parts of the ⁓ northern western part of the state.

Liz Canada
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, North Country. Yeah, I bet.

Henry Och (23:52)
So they've been great to work transitional housing program for homeless veterans, we have three facilities, a total of 70 beds. That is...

a program that we operate ⁓ in partnership with the VA and that's been a very significant success. We also have a homeless veterans reintegration program where we provide job training to ⁓ previously homeless veterans. We connect them with veteran friendly employers. If they don't have clothes for an interview or to go to work, we take care of that. We help them with their resume.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (24:36)
and really do a lot of job coaching. And we support about 125 veterans through that program. And that's through the Department of Labor ⁓ on the federal side.

Liz Canada
Wow.

So moving not so far from housing, because I think it's very much connected to health care, and you mentioned employment ⁓ support as well. What kinds of health care and mental health care services do veterans access in New Hampshire? I know you mentioned the VA. ⁓ I guess I'm also curious, like what barriers you've seen as you've worked with individuals through your

Henry Och (25:08)
Mm-hmm.

Liz Canada
through your organization.

Henry Och (25:15)
Yep. one of the challenges that we have when we are working with newly identified homeless veterans is ⁓ verifying ⁓

⁓ their benefits. If you have been living in an encampment ⁓ or just ⁓ unsheltered in general for a while, you might not necessarily have your documents in order. There's this form that we use to ⁓ help demonstrate veteran status and the technical term is DD214 form. It pretty much lists out

Liz Canada
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (25:51)
the veteran's information, ⁓ their discharge status, as well as other information.

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (25:59)
I know I don't carry that around with me. And if you're on shelter, it's probably not on top of your list of things to ⁓ cart around. So that is a barrier, trying to make sure that we collect all the appropriate documentation to get individuals connected ⁓ to ⁓ services. ⁓ So once that's established, ⁓ if they are indeed in

Liz Canada
You're right.

Henry Och (26:29)
in the North getting them transportation to those services is also something that is a challenge. If they're connected with us, whether they're in Nashua, in Plymouth, or in Manchester, we do have a fleet of vehicles and drivers to help facilitate But it still remains a challenge.

⁓ So we do try to connect ⁓ individuals to the VA. That's what the VA would like to see. But there are other community supports, whether they are through the 10 federally qualified community health centers across the state or the mental health centers. They have programs specifically for ⁓ veterans. But sometimes the limiting factor there is the availability of clinical

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (27:25)
staff to provide services.

Liz Canada
Hmm. Yeah.

And have you encountered issues with sort of the rural health care with health centers closing or, you know, decreased staff, they're being stretched thin. Have you found that to be an issue over the last however long that might, I feel like it's ongoing, but is that a thing that you've noticed in your work?

Henry Och (27:31)
you

So one of the programs that we operate, so again we provide.

Housing and Housing Supports, Healthcare for the Homeless, and ⁓ programs for ⁓ homeless military veterans. Our Healthcare for the Homeless program is what's called a federally qualified community health center, and I believe there's 10 of them across the state of New Hampshire. And those health centers that are up in the North Country really have been struggling for a wide array of different reasons. So ultimately, if we have sites shutting down, ⁓ they're limiting access

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (28:22)
to care to not only veterans but just the general population. So what happens then? People don't get that preventative care and then ultimately their situation might degrade to a point where they have to go to an emergency room somewhere, which is a lot more expensive intervention than keeping a clinic open up in the North Country.

Liz Canada
Goes

back to the prevention is the most cost effective. And then as you get further down, it just becomes more expensive for everybody, really, truly. We touched on this a little bit, but maybe there's room for more. How does trauma and PTSD or substance use show up for folks you work with? I feel like that is sometimes.

Henry Och (28:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

you

Liz Canada
brought to attention when thinking about veterans and what they're facing when they come back to civilian life. Or maybe that's just a misconception that folks have.

Henry Och (29:20)
No, it's very real. I'll share a story of a veteran that I've gotten to know. His name is Michael. ⁓ Michael deployed to Afghanistan, I believe it was in 2010, with the New Hampshire Army National Guard. And while he was over in Afghanistan, ⁓ he...

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (29:42)
He was involved in a lot of ⁓ combat operations. He actually came back with a traumatic brain injury. ⁓ And when he got back, he didn't really know how to deal with what was going on inside his head. So he self-medicated with drugs and alcohol for 10 years. ⁓

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (30:09)
And ultimately, ⁓ that led to him losing his job, getting disconnected with family, and he wound up in a situation where he was living ⁓ in his truck with his dog. And then one day, ⁓ he realized that he couldn't even take care of his dog. So he put together a plan to take the dog to the ⁓ MSPCA to give him up. ⁓

gave him up, he was going to take his own life. ⁓ But something ⁓ told him that day that I'm going to give it one more shot and I'm going to ask for help. And he did. ⁓ And he got connected to our suicide prevention program. We connected him with the VA. We brought him into transitional housing.

And the transformation was nothing less than remarkable. at this point, he is well over a year sober. I think he's going on two years now. He applied and got accepted into Keene State last year as a 45-year-old freshman, I think.

Liz Canada
amazing.

Perfect.

It's a great time to do it. Doesn't matter what age. It's a great time to do it.

Henry Och (31:26)
He decided to study psychology to give back to the community. So he just started his second year. And what's really ⁓ impactful with this story is that this August, with the help of his family, he actually bought a home in Keene. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Canada
Hmm. Wow. That's incredible. Asking

for help. That's a big, it's kind of a big jump that some folks have to take that it's very, very vulnerable, people can feel very embarrassed to have to do it. But it sounds like you have a lot of examples of folks when that happens, there are supports there to help them and to get them moving in the right direction.

Henry Och (31:58)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Okay.

Liz Canada
So employment is also a part of being a veteran and coming back to civilian life.

I imagine for some it's difficult to navigate post-military specific work. What does that look like for supporting them? I heard you mention you help folks with resumes and interviews and so forth. What does that look like?

Henry Och (32:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I think generally speaking, ⁓ there's a lot of work that I think ⁓ employers need to do to help support transitioning veterans, not just homeless veterans. So when you're in uniform, you learn a lot. ⁓

of skills that are required, specifically in the space of leadership, management, ⁓ just general coordination. ⁓ And when individuals leave the service and try to acquire civilian jobs, ⁓ that breadth of knowledge doesn't necessarily ⁓ translate easily to

Liz Canada
Mm-hmm.

Henry Och (33:19)
to a civilian ⁓ work setting. So two things, I think that ⁓ the Department of Defense has done better in educating service members as they're exiting to... ⁓

to get them prepared for the civilian workforce, but I think that civilian employers also need to educate themselves on what does it mean to serve and what are those skills that these folks are bringing, could potentially bring into the work setting. And I do see a big gap there.

Liz Canada
What should employers know? Like what would you want them to know and do differently than what happens now?

Henry Och (34:04)
So I would say that when a veteran applies for a job, if what's on the resume doesn't necessarily mean anything to you, call them in and have a conversation. Present them with a scenario. Hey, we have this particular problem. How would you go about dealing with it? And then just see their thought process

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (34:32)
⁓ unfold ⁓ and ⁓ more often than not I think that ⁓ those employers will ⁓ find something impressive about that individual in front of them.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Hmm. It might look on the resume like a different language when they're having the what they've done in their military service, but don't let that be a barrier to chatting with them. It's good to know more. Great. So to bring it back all to New Hampshire overall, the podcast is called New Hampshire Has Issues. What state level policy changes when it comes to these areas of homelessness and housing?

Henry Och (34:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Liz Canada
and health care and employment, like what state level policy changes would make a difference?

Henry Och (35:17)
Zoning. I think zoning typically is a barrier when we're looking at setting up. ⁓

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (35:25)
facilities to support affordable housing. ⁓ And a lot of that really is managed at the more local level, at the local zoning boards. And I think that ⁓ we need to have a ⁓ focused conversation around what the barriers are within each individual municipality to having ⁓ some of these programs and facilities getting set up in

in each respective community.

Liz Canada
Hmm.

When I started this podcast, I did not know how much I would be talking about zoning on various episodes, but zoning boards and planning boards, they have come up a lot over many different issues. So zoning being one big one. And I had an episode with Nick Taylor, talked about affordable housing. He really pitched getting to know your zoning board, getting to know your planning board.

Henry Och (36:04)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Liz Canada
Maybe serve on those. There are usually openings. Go serve

on them. right, so zoning being one. Any other things that could make a difference in New Hampshire?

Henry Och (36:33)
Well, think that one of the in regards to in regards to housing, housing specifically, we have had I'll tell you one of the things that that we saw as a as a.

problem post COVID. And that is that there was a lot of relief funding provided and some controls in place to prevent evictions. Now, that was both a blessing and a curse for tenants and landlords, depending on which side of the table you were in. we really have to be looking at, again, going back to something that we've talked about earlier, having an open

dialogue around what are some of these upstream solutions that we can identify and put into place. the problem that ⁓ I've seen with having a conversation around some of the far upstream ⁓ solutions is that you might not see a net result in one election cycle or maybe two or maybe three. It might be a whole generation before you see the

Liz Canada
Hmm.

Henry Och (37:48)
the net impact. And in today's real time, 30 second YouTube society, that attention span is just not there.

Liz Canada
It's short. We've got very short attention spans. yeah.

Henry Och (38:07)
I think that for community agencies like HarborCare and others, I think it's very important that we understand our role as the...

the voices for those who don't have a voice. So we are very intentional about making sure that the broader community understands that the work that we do is impactful because at the end of the day, there are real people that are in need and it's our collective responsibility to come together and figure out what we can do with the resources that we have.

Liz Canada
Simple enough. Do what we can with what we have to support others. Great.

Henry Och (38:51)
Mm-hmm.

I do want to talk just a little bit about Harbor Cares 22nd annual Thanksgiving Community Dinner. ⁓ It's a fantastic event. ⁓ We hold it at our 45 High Street location in Nashua. ⁓

Liz Canada
Yes.

Henry Och (39:11)
It's an event where we bring the community together. Individuals looking for a warm meal that day can pop in anytime between 1130 and 2 o'clock ⁓ and get a turkey dinner with all the fixings. We're very happy that ⁓ Alex Ray ⁓ and the Common Man organization is providing the food. They've provided the food for the past couple of years. They're a great organization to ⁓ work with and that's open to ⁓

local residents, ⁓ individuals and families experiencing homelessness, ⁓ veterans, anyone again that's looking for a warm meal that day. And we usually have our many elected officials actually on the serving line providing the food.

Liz Canada
I've seen the pictures on your website.

We've got a little bit of everybody in those serving lines. It's pretty exciting.

Henry Och (40:02)
Yeah,

yeah, it's a very, it's a very special day.

Liz Canada
That's really great. And depending on what's happening in terms of SNAP benefits and folks being able to access food, these types of ⁓ dinners and meals are more critical than ever because folks need to be able to eat and not just on holidays, but literally every single day. I'll have ⁓ links in the show notes about that.

Henry Och (40:11)
Yeah.

Liz Canada
events about HarborCare in general and to provide that information for folks so that they know what's out there.

Thank you, Henry. Thanks for coming on the podcast and talking with me about this.

Henry Och (40:38)
Yeah, thank you for having me. It was a very enjoyable conversation and hopefully we can have some more in the future.

Liz Canada
I will say that if we talk in the future, I can promise you I have not run a marathon at that point. It's not going to happen now. It's not going to happen then. But I do want to hear about yours after Sunday. I want to hear how that goes. So have a great race.

Henry Och (40:52)
Hahaha

Absolutely.